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 Reloading .30 carbine Worries?
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BEYU
Advanced Member


USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  12:07:47 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have just begun to reload for my .30 carbine, and as safety is the most important consideration, I have some questions for you reloaders. By the way, I have been reloading .38 special for a while with no trouble.

My main concern right now is that I may be compressing my loads of powder, as well as possibly loading too hot. So far Ive loaded 15 rounds, and thought it was a good idea to stop and check a few things before going on.

I am using H110 powder, FMJ round from Hi-Tech Ammunition company. Primers are CCI No. 41 small rifle primers (for 5.56mm rifles).

I am trimming my cases (using a Lyman Universal Trimmer) to 1.280 - 1.285, after sizing in my Lee Classic Turret press.

I am aiming at a starting charge of 14 grains, as recommended both in Lyman and Lees reloading manuals. Here is the first difficulty using the Lee Auto Disc C, at an aperture of .95, gives me a charge of 14.5 -14.7 grs. (Max load for this powder and bullet is 15 grs). If I drop down to the next lower aperture of .88, I get 13.4 - 13.7 grs.

Next, I notice that when I seat the bullet in the case for an Over All Length of 1.680 as recommended, I suspect I am compressing the powder in the case, because I see the charge fills the case pretty far up.

Should I pull the loads and reduce the charges?

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin

Tuna
Moderator



3325 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  12:43:05 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Compressing the powder is not an issue with the H-110. Have you fired any of the rounds yet? If so how do the cases look and the primers? If the starting load for H-110 is in the 13.0 gr.+ range then your OK with it if you use the .88 aperture. If not then stay at the 14.0+ to 15 gr. range.

Edited by - Tuna on 11/01/2017 12:44:05 PM
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  2:44:31 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Tuna! I knew I would get useful info from you guys.

I have not fired any yet.

The starting load is 14.0 grains. So I will stay with the .95 aperture which gives me 14.5 - 14.7 gr

By the way, I aslo checked O.A.L. of my loads (1.680 - 1.685) against factory loads. PPU O.A.L. is 1.660 Armscor is 1.650 Sellier & Bellot is 1.669

I also weighed my reloads against the factory loads. My reloads (case, primer, powder and 110 gr bullet) is 202.3 - 203.6 gr My brass is once fired Armscor.

The factory loads (case, primer, powder and 110 gr bullet) are as follows: PPU is 196.2 gr Armscor is 200.6 - 201.2 gr Sellier & Bellot is 198.7 - 199.5 gr

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3159 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  3:46:36 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
14.5-14.7 of H110 is fine You won't be too high. I'm assuming that the bullet you are using is a 110 grain pill. Although I prefer IMR 4227, I also use H110 in the 14.5 gr. range. It should function fine and cycle your action smartly. Accuracy in most carbines is good with H110. Don't worry about compressed powder charges in the carbine. The upper end loads for several of the best powders are compressed loads. I've loaded tens of thousands of carbine rounds and most have slightly compressed powder charges. BTW, when you trim your cases, trim to the 1.280 length. Otherwise, you'll likely be trimming almost every time you reload. Carbine rounds do tend to stretch a bit.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  3:52:06 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Jim. Now that I've got it from both you and Tuna, I am good to go.

I am loading 110 gr FMJ bullets from Hi-Tach Ammunition. From here on, I will trim to 1.280 versus 1.285.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
368 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  5:47:39 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like to load up to a point that properly cycles my guns, offers decent accuracy and don't beat them up. It will/may be carbine specific, but I load a lot of 13.5-grain H110 ammo to 1.660 OAL. That produces a MV of 1852 fps. I don't think you could ever draw any conclusions by weighing commercial ammo for a comparison. You have no idea what powder, or how much of it they used. I would not trim my brass to 1.280, it just adds to head-space and the tighter the gun is the better. I like to measure the head-space on my guns to determine what I can safely shoot, but that's getting rather anal I suppose.

Enjoy!
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myname
Advanced Member



USA
214 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  10:01:03 PM  Show Profile Send myname a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jimb16, what is your favorite 4227 load? I have run lots of 12.5 grain loads with 115 hard cast or coated bullets.
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  10:10:50 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I knew the weight and dimensions of the ammunition made by different companies was likely to vary quite a bit.

It is understandable different companies likely use components from different vendors. These parts or components would have slightly differing dimensions and weights. But I thought it of interest to look at them anyway, to get a picture of the range of variation.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
368 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  06:10:51 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've tried to weigh-and-compare myself. Those times when one gets confused reloading different projectile weights in the same session....and loses track of what he punched in the cases in front of him. You can generally sort a 9MM 115-grain from a 124-grain by weighing.

I ran across what Hodgdon called H108 powder some time ago. As it turns-out, it was a mil-surplus powder specified for the carbine. Hodgdon named it H108 and sold it commercially. I have a letter from Hodgdon along with load data to exactly duplicate the GI load. 13-grains H108 delivers a MV of 1930 and pressure of 36,900. The stuff shoots very well and I load 12.5-grains that duplicates a 13.5-grain H110 load.
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  09:44:55 AM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by americanboy



I ran across what Hodgdon called H108 powder some time ago. As it turns-out, it was a mil-surplus powder specified for the carbine. Hodgdon named it H108 and sold it commercially. I have a letter from Hodgdon along with load data to exactly duplicate the GI load. 13-grains H108 delivers a MV of 1930 and pressure of 36,900. The stuff shoots very well and I load 12.5-grains that duplicates a 13.5-grain H110 load.



Thanks for that. Very interesting. I may try H108 next just for sh*ts and giggles...

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
368 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  10:29:04 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
108 may not be easy to find. My neighbor had several pounds of the stuff that he and his brother had purchased some time ago. Hodgdon doesn't even list it in their reloading data. Hodgdon did provide load-data for the carbine as well as magnum pistol loads and even a .410 shotgun load. I understand that it mimics Accurate #9 load data, or pretty close to it. I've compared the two and the charge-weights are similar. I'd likely not go out of my way to purchase 108 if I were to run-out. Never look a gift horse in the mouth and I did not in this case. My neighbor knew that I reload for the carbine and he dosen't, but has used it in 44-magnum loads. 110 is available everywhere. I was intrigued with the 108 because it was supposedly developed for the carbine.
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  12:44:47 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the clarification. I heard someplace that H110 was also specifically developed for the .30 caliber 110 gr bullet used in the carbine?

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin

Edited by - BEYU on 11/02/2017 12:46:44 PM
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3159 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  7:57:29 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
12.5 4227 with a cast 130 gr.PB

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Pappy
Advanced Member



319 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  4:48:30 PM  Show Profile Send Pappy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been loading 115 cast with 12.5 IMR 4227. I'm liking the cast loads the more I shoot them

OGCA Life Member, NRA, GCA,
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Tuna
Moderator



3325 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  9:04:04 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
H-110 was originally a Western/Winchester powder called 630. Accurate #9 is the same as H-110. As Winchester still made and sold 630 I think it may have been Hodgdon when they bought it surplus changed the name to H-110 so it did not interfere with the Winchester 630 patients?
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Pappy
Advanced Member



319 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2017 :  09:37:22 AM  Show Profile Send Pappy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BEYU: When I'm loading 110gr jacketed and using H-110 I have some carbines that like 14-14.2 and others that like 14.8-15grs most of the time using Win SR primers. You'll find your carbines sweet spot within that range

When loading 110gr jacketed and using IMR4227 just about all my carbine do well with 14.8-15grs of that stuff. As I said above I'm really liking the cast bullet thing sized at .310" pushing with IMR4227

OGCA Life Member, NRA, GCA,
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2017 :  2:17:02 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At the range, I found another issue. I had 5 misfires with my reloads. Having a look at those rounds, I saw light strikes on the primers. I loaded those again and 4 of the 5 fired right off.

The 5th one would not fire even after 3 or more retries. When I got home I pulled the bullet and found the primer was empty - no "stuff" in it! The primers I am using are CCI No. 41 light rifle primers.

Do you guys routinely clean your primer pockets before seating a new primer? By the way, I routinely rotate the primer about 90 degrees when seating them, and reseat again, just to make sure it is fully seated. I started doing this with my .38 special reloads. It greatly cured light strikes, but I have not found I needed to clean the primer pockets on my .38s.

By the by: Except for the primer issue, the reloads performed great! More accurate than factory loads, and as Jimb said, the action cycled very smartly.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin

Edited by - BEYU on 11/13/2017 2:26:57 PM
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
368 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2017 :  3:44:57 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
CCI primers are known to be a bit hard. I do not routinely clean my primer-pockets. It just depends on how they look to me as I inspect the sized cases.
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2017 :  5:17:52 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by americanboy

CCI primers are known to be a bit hard. I do not routinely clean my primer-pockets. It just depends on how they look to me as I inspect the sized cases.



I know that about CCI primers. I had a few mis-fires with .38 special reloads using their primer. I recently changed to Winchester but have not shot any yet.

I chose to use CCI primers for .30 carbine because I was told it was recommended because the carbine has a floating firing pin, and the CCI No.41 primer is Mil-Spec.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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Pappy
Advanced Member



319 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2017 :  5:32:49 PM  Show Profile Send Pappy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seat ANY primer flush or below and you shouldn't have any problems. I've used about every primer made except CCI No 41's and loaded 1000's and 1000's of many different calibers without the first slam fire. I started reloading in 1976 with my RCBS Rock chucker that I still use today

OGCA Life Member, NRA, GCA,
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
311 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2017 :  6:49:29 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy

Seat ANY primer flush or below and you shouldn't have any problems. I've used about every primer made except CCI No 41's and loaded 1000's and 1000's of many different calibers without the first slam fire. I started reloading in 1976 with my RCBS Rock chucker that I still use today



As far as I know, that is what I have been doing. I seat the new primer, then rotate it about 90 degrees and seat it again just to make sure it is fully seated and not cocked. I believe the procedure was recommended by Lee Precision. I am using a Lee Classic Turret press.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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Tuna
Moderator



3325 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2017 :  9:04:42 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As long as your Winchester primers are a bit below flush your fine with them. I have been reloading carbine ammo for 45 years now and have used just about every primer that is out there. CCI has always been one of the worst as far as seating properly. They have a tendency to be a bit over sized from standard. But with the carbine you don't need a so called mil spec 41 primer or a magnum primer.
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3159 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2017 :  1:20:57 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing that hasn't been mentioned...The carbine has a free floating firing pin. As a result, when a round is chambered, the pin will often leave a small mark on the primer. Don't worry about that. After thousands of rounds, I've never had a slam-fire as a result and I've never heard of anyone else who has. When you first see that, you will think "that can't be good"! Its nothing to worry about. The primers won't fire from such a lite strike. Ask any of the guys here. They'll tell you the same.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Pappy
Advanced Member



319 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2017 :  2:16:38 PM  Show Profile Send Pappy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, what Jim said. No worries

OGCA Life Member, NRA, GCA,
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