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 1943 Winchester shooting SUPER low
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ameri_christian
Starting Member


USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2017 :  8:46:56 PM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello i have a 1943 winchester all original that's shooting 18 inches low at 25 yards any ideas how I can fix it it has the sliding rear sight on it and im shooting Armscor 110 grain any help would be appreciated thank you!

Edited by - ameri_christian on 02/07/2017 8:50:57 PM

Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1070 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2017 :  9:34:47 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi and welcome to the forum from New Mexico!

Wow, 18 inches! Normally an early carbine originally manufactured with a flip sight will shoot a little high after an adjustable sight is installed. It's often necessary to replace the front sight with one that hasn't been filed to increase its height thus lowering the point of impact. In your case something else is happening. All I can suggest is check to see if your barrel is bent, or maybe the rear sight is somehow misaligned. Maybe someone else will have some ideas. It might be helpful if you could post side view closeup pictures of your front and rear sights.

JackP
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2017 :  10:10:02 PM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you! I will have pics up tomorrow
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  07:51:51 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whoa! This sounds like a fun one. It seems almost impossible to me, but we know it is happening. Maybe you could give us some history, like is this a new gun to you, have you shot this before without a problem, etc. Do you have a bore sight? Does it make any difference if you raise the peep sight to uppermost position? does it eject the fired casing properly and load a unfired round into the chamber? It also might help to read ( shooting the M1 carbine for accuracy ) on the internet if you haven't already.
Good luck
SM
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  08:02:17 AM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im not around my rifle now so I cant get pictures of the sights and yes with the sight all the way up its still 4 or 5 inches low at 25 yards ive had the rifle about 2 weeks now I had to rebuild the bolt and now it has little to no malfunctions maybe one or 2 failures to go into battery in 100 rounds
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  09:30:51 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AC
I checked the upward travel of the rear sight as .151 and you say that raised the poi by 13 inches. So I guess the question is do you have enough front sight to file it down and make up 18 inches??? Maybe it could be done. I will have to ask the audience on this one. :)
I guess you could buy a cheap used sight on ebay to test it.
SM

Edited by - swampmolly on 02/08/2017 09:41:13 AM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1070 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  10:00:05 AM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Swampmolly, he needs more adjustment than is possible by filing down the front sight. Check my e-mail.

JackP
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  10:32:06 AM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah when I do my holdover the POI is where the front sight blade meets the the soght
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1070 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  10:55:28 AM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You must have a bent barrel or some kind of misalignment between the barrel and receiver. Best to have a gunsmith check it. I calculated that you need to move the rear sight up well over 3/8", more than twice the range of adjustment available.

JackP
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  12:13:18 PM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like I will be making a trip to my gunsmith soon
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  12:59:07 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The audience is usually right. :)
Let us know how you make out.
Good luck
SM
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cali201
Senior Member



USA
714 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2017 :  06:31:47 AM  Show Profile Send cali201 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
and an adjustable sight to a 1943 Winchester is NOT original.
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2017 :  08:13:20 AM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could that be the reason for shooting low
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1070 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2017 :  10:35:10 AM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No. Replacement adjustable sights usually cause the carbine to shoot high.

When the carbine is first manufactured, the front sight is filed down to zero the new carbine with the flip sight. As Cali said your carbine would have originally had a flip sight. Later, during an arsenal upgrade, the flip sight would have been replaced with an adjustable sight. This may have been done where they didn't have the facility to re-zero the carbine. With the new adjustable rear sight, the front sight had already been filed down too much to be able to return to zero. Thus it's point of impact would be high. The fix is to add height to the front sight or replace it with one that has not been filed.

The problem you are having is the opposite. Your carbine shoots low, meaning your front sight is still too high. As I said before, you would have to file the sight down over .4" to correct 18" at 25 yards which is more than the height of the front sight blade. Your barrel is probably bent. You should be able to notice .4". Check it using a yard stick like shown below. The bottom of the barrel should be about 1/4 of an inch above the bottom surface of the receiver.




JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/09/2017 7:40:44 PM
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2017 :  11:29:41 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good idea jack ! If you still have the barrel out ,how about an overall height from the bottom of the receiver to the top of the peep sight with it in 100 yard position. Then he could check the sight as well.
SM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1070 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2017 :  12:29:01 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry SM. It's back in the safe.

JackP
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2017 :  11:01:01 AM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How much would the sight have to filed for 9 inches low at 25 yards, also is it possible to post pictures on here from a smart phone

Edited by - ameri_christian on 02/10/2017 11:25:07 AM
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2017 :  11:41:51 AM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok sorry for blowing up the thread but my front sight post is .281 or 9/32" high and rear sight is a half inch from the top of the aperature on the 100 setting to the dovetail
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2017 :  1:13:32 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AC
As far as I can tell it is .5 inches from the top of the dovetail to the top of the hole in the peep sight and my blade is 8/32 from the flat part of the front sight. you seem good in that respect.
The height difference from 100 setting to 300 setting is .130 of an inch.
"Yeah when I do my holdover the POI is where the front sight blade meets the the sight."

You really need to check out the barrel.
SM

Edited by - swampmolly on 02/10/2017 1:19:38 PM
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ameri_christian
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2017 :  9:11:16 PM  Show Profile Send ameri_christian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok so after a trip to a local we decided the barrel is shot out, rifling is weak to non existent and the staking on my rear sight has worn out so my rear sight drifts he has a 1943 inland barrel that is super tight with good rifling so hes going to do a barrel swap and re stake the rear sight I know this will "de value" the rifle but I want a straight shooter not just a wall hanger
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2017 :  09:28:36 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AC
Since you mentioned you had a couple of failure to fire because of being out of battery, check the operating spring to be 10 1/4 inches while you will have the rifle apart.
SM
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