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boomer656
Greenhorn Member


USA
42 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2018 :  1:54:33 PM  Show Profile Send boomer656 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've recently become the proud owner of this Standard Products carbine.



I mentioned in my 'new member' post that the barrel markings weren't very clear (almost illegible). Based on my description, JackP suggested it might be a Winchester barrel and provided a reference link. I've have some photo's available now, so let me know what you think.

Front sight is to the right. The first barrel mark (manufacturer?) is 1 inch behind the front sight, and the second mark (proof?) is 2 1/4 inches behind the front sight. There are no marks on the front sight.






Edited by - boomer656 on 02/23/2018 1:57:07 PM

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2018 :  2:49:18 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Usually the proof mark is pretty clear. In this case it looks like the inspector sneezed when they stamped your barrel and maybe even tried to stamp it a second time. For sure it's a Winchester proof mark. BTW, nice pictures! It's not often that we get such good images to go along with a members questions. Not all front sights were marked by their maker although sights for your rifle are usually found with "N" or "SN" stamped behind the sight blade. It looks like yours is a Type 1 which is correct for Standard Products.

JackP
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boomer656
Greenhorn Member



USA
42 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2018 :  3:31:31 PM  Show Profile Send boomer656 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jackp

... BTW, nice pictures! It's not often that we get such good images to go along with a members questions ...


Thanks. I find it a lot easier to take a picture than trying to paint one with words.
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boomer656
Greenhorn Member



USA
42 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2018 :  1:59:32 PM  Show Profile Send boomer656 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jackp

Usually the proof mark is pretty clear. In this case it looks like the inspector sneezed when they stamped your barrel and maybe even tried to stamp it a second time. For sure it's a Winchester proof mark. ... Not all front sights were marked by their maker although sights for your rifle are usually found with "N" or "SN" stamped behind the sight blade. It looks like yours is a Type 1 which is correct for Standard Products.



Were the receivers and barrels kept together during the post war rebuilds (assuming both in good shape), or were they all separated?
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2018 :  2:23:32 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The barrel and receiver would have only been separated if either were considered "unserviceable" (excessive headspace, excessive pitting, damage, etc.). I would be in favor of assuming that the barrel is original to the receiver since we can't "prove" that it wasn't. Check out this link.


You must be logged in to see this link.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/24/2018 2:24:11 PM
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boomer656
Greenhorn Member



USA
42 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2018 :  2:39:00 PM  Show Profile Send boomer656 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jackp

The barrel and receiver would have only been separated if either were considered "unserviceable" (excessive headspace, excessive pitting, damage, etc.). I would be in favor of assuming that the barrel is original to the receiver since we can't "prove" that it wasn't. Check out this link.


You must be logged in to see this link.



Makes sense, and thanks for the link.
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Tuna
Moderator



3254 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2018 :  10:30:21 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Winchester barrels are serial number dependent. If your carbine was made before Jan. 1944 then a Winchester barrel is possible as Standard Products received a total of just over 5000 Winchester barrels during 1943, but not after that time frame. May very well have been replaced during the rebuild.
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boomer656
Greenhorn Member



USA
42 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2018 :  11:06:36 AM  Show Profile Send boomer656 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tuna

Winchester barrels are serial number dependent. If your carbine was made before Jan. 1944 then a Winchester barrel is possible as Standard Products received a total of just over 5000 Winchester barrels during 1943, but not after that time frame. May very well have been replaced during the rebuild.



Thanks for the info. The serial number is 20343xx. The chart I saw shows production for that SN occurred between March 43 and September 43.

Edited by - boomer656 on 02/25/2018 1:23:27 PM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2018 :  2:32:53 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Standard Products carbines in your serial number range often show up with Underwood barrels dated August-October, 1943. So, I believe it is fair to assume yours was made at about the same time. Barrels were pretty much hand-to-mouth at that time. Another thing to look at is if the finish and wear of the barrel matches that of the receiver. This, of course, assumes neither were refinished during a rebuild. I can't tell about the receiver but your barrel looks to have it's original finish. So far, I still believe it's original.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/25/2018 2:54:39 PM
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Tuna
Moderator



3254 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2018 :  7:44:28 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your serial number would date to about September 1943. The barrel in your photo appears to be refinished. If it matches the receiver in color then it most likely has been refinished during the rebuild. But the barrel could be original to the carbine.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2018 :  10:46:40 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Roy, you mentioned that there was an "S" marked on the right side of the gas port. The only marking I have been able find that might be in that location is the Army Ordinance bomb symbol. Any chance this might be a poorly stamped ordinance bomb considering how poorly stamped the proof marks were? There's an example of what it should look like at this link, third image down. You must be logged in to see this link.

Here's an example of a poorly stamped ordinance bomb, 6th image down.You must be logged in to see this link.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/25/2018 11:04:51 PM
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boomer656
Greenhorn Member



USA
42 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2018 :  3:47:52 PM  Show Profile Send boomer656 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jackp

Roy, you mentioned that there was an "S" marked on the right side of the gas port. The only marking I have been able find that might be in that location is the Army Ordinance bomb symbol. Any chance this might be a poorly stamped ordinance bomb considering how poorly stamped the proof marks were? There's an example of what it should look like at this link, third image down. You must be logged in to see this link.

Here's an example of a poorly stamped ordinance bomb, 6th image down.You must be logged in to see this link.




Jack, The barrel does have an Army Ordnance Bomb mark in that location, but there is also an 'S' just forward of it.


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Tuna
Moderator



3254 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2018 :  6:13:50 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just an inspection marking.
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