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 M1 carbine cracking bolts
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gew98
Starting Member


USA
5 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  4:25:57 PM  Show Profile Send gew98 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok , Have an M1 carbine I owned years ago. Gave it to a buddy years ago. Same buddy has given it to my son. He has had it 5 + years now. Probably has been shot 1,500 rounds since my son has had it in the past couple years. Anyhow a month ago the I0 made bolt cracked. It's a Winchester carbine for what it's worth. All the fired barass showed no bulging or excessive pressure indicators. Bought a Winchester bolt for it in exc condition. He fired not even 30 rounds and that bolt cracked in same place..... from extractor cut to around and behind lug.
I've never encountered this before. It leads me to think the receiver has issues. Any help appreciated.

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1064 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  7:50:43 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi and welcome to the forum from New Mexico!

It looks like you are not having much luck with this carbine. You may be on to something about the receiver. If the locking surface on the left side was worn or damaged it could allow the bolt to see excessive forces on the right side, where it is most likely to fail. Also, when the first bolt cracked that may have led to further damage to the left side causing the new bolt to fail. Before trying yet another bolt check the area shown in the attaches picture. The first picture is a damaged receiver that could cause a bolt failure. It may have been damaged by an out-of-battery discharge.



The receiver should look like the second picture:



The make of the receiver and bolt should make no difference. They should all be interchangeable.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/06/2018 7:52:05 PM
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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
77 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  1:43:38 PM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Respectfully ...

Do not shoot that Carbine. IF YOU CAN obtain another confirmed in specification bolt, (round or flat) you first need to conduct a necessary head space check of the rifle.

You might have an excessive head space problem. You will need that third in spec bolt to find out. Also the three head space gages. GO, NO GO and FIELD. All three will be needed.

Check the head space first. If you do not have a good extra bolt or the head space gages, perhaps it might be best to find a good Carbine gunsmith. He can quickly inspect your gun.

That is the first step. Also if the Carbine gunsmith can go completely through your carbine it might be a good idea. I am thinking lug wear or a cracked receiver.

If you do have the extra bolt and the three gages, head space check the Carbine. If it passes, then inspect both receiver lugs. Then closely inspect the receiver for cracks.

Check the barrel indexing. Do a complete Carbine inspection. All fun and easy if you have the gages, tools and widgets necessary. Again ... do not shoot that gun. Safety.

If you have at least 10 of the fired brass, mike them ALL for overall length. You are looking for long or short cases. Are you shooting hand loads or only factory ammo?

Sorry.

Respectfully.
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gew98
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  5:41:29 PM  Show Profile Send gew98 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been reloading for over 35 years. The brass - fired brass is not out of spec , has no signs of swelling , no signs of adverse expansion , no primers flattened etc. I assumed receiver issue as that left side lug area looks beat up like one member posted.
I had a plainfield many years ago that had headspace issues - and it was in about unfired condition. Had a smith work on the barrel and put it back in problem solved. This carbine never suffered from an out of battery. Have experienced that on an FN49 and an AR15 over the years...pretty obvious when such happens and the brass always gets junked by such an episode. I'll see if my old world smith can weld up and heat treat that affected lug recess. Got my fingers crossed as he has done some amazing work reheat treat and carbon reintroduction to guns lost in fires.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1064 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  6:29:44 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could you possibly post a picture of the beat up areas of the lug locking surfaces on your receiver? It would be useful to others to see such examples so that they know what to look for when shopping for a used carbine.

JackP
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gew98
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2018 :  3:47:49 PM  Show Profile Send gew98 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All I can do is take a pic with the wife's smarter than me phone and send it to someone. Was a time I had a good sony mavica and it took awesome pics which were super easy to load up and post on the net. Nowhere as easy nowadays . More technology and more hoops to jump through more programs... too much trouble anymore.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1064 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2018 :  5:34:02 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd be glad to post the pictures for you. I'll PM you with my e-mail address.

JackP
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gew98
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2018 :  1:55:03 PM  Show Profile Send gew98 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well ; just returned from smith. The receiver is toast. The carbine receivers are cast steel , and the lug can not be built up by weld and stay together. Smithy has seen this more than a couple times and many years ago tried to fix. I guess I need to shop around for a GI carbine receiver... not in any hurry I guess.
First day off in months where I can get to smithy and what news.He said he has seen M1 rifles with same failure due to heavy bullet hot loads.... generally though he said headspace issues cause lug setback than something fails like this.

Edited by - gew98 on 02/10/2018 2:00:35 PM
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
363 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2018 :  4:47:17 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it's a Winchester, or any one of the prime USGI contractors, the receiver will be forged and not cast.
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gew98
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2018 :  2:11:54 PM  Show Profile Send gew98 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do you have a source that info - and any ever repaired that did not fail ?.
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
363 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2018 :  3:40:44 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is some good reading. U can spend hours, or maybe even days doing the research on these pages.

You must be logged in to see this link.

One never-says-never and always-is-not-always with a carbine, but I'm pretty sure the USGI contractors never produced one with a cast steel receiver. Commercial manufacturers....yes, but never a USGI example made under the original contract, as far as my knowledge carries me.

I have never been faced with needing to have one repaired, but one can search and discover that certain areas can be welded. It's the heat-treatment after the weld that is problematic. I think your wound is in a critical area and it will be pounded under firing.
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painter777
Greenhorn Member



USA
33 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2018 :  1:32:21 PM  Show Profile Send painter777 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Prevent Bolt failures.
Inspect Left Locking lug for damage.
Inspect both left and right bolt lug guide ways and Bolt lugs for burrs.
Also inspect Op slide lug guide ways.

NOTE the 2nd picture will show the bottom right corner of the Left stop. It has a 45 degree angle that resembles a Mitre cut. This allows for easy rotation by not having a sharp corner.

Passed Inspection:






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Tuna
Moderator



3308 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2018 :  10:09:41 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
gew98, I think it's time for you to find a new gunsmith. One who knows what he is talking about. No USGI receiver is made from a casting. All are machined from solid blocks of steel. The cast receivers made since WW2 are not the best option for any carbine. A real good smith can weld up the problem area on the left side of a USGI receiver, machine it back to spec and install a new bolt that is properly head spaced. Look at Jacks and Charlie's photos of the left lug areas. The most likely cause is an out of battery discharge where the bolt has not rotated completely into the locking recesses of the receive. Just enough rotation to allow the firing pin to be hit but not secured. This causes the bolt to slam back causing damage to the receiver and quite often destroying the bolt. Often a reloaded case just a little bit too long is the culprit. All carbine brass being reloaded MUST be measured and trimmed if as long or longer then 1.290 inches long.
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