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 Not sure what this barrel is.
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Gorf
Starting Member


USA
5 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2017 :  5:54:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gorf's Homepage Send Gorf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Howdy all. I'm hoping someone could give me a hand understanding what I have on my hands. I recently purchased an inexpensive M1 Carbine. Quality Hardware with a serial number that puts it around the June '43 manufacture mark. I've been restoring it back into GI form, but I realize now that it appears to have an aftermarket barrel on it. Or at least I think so. The sights on the end of the barrel are... I don't know... pressed in? Welded? Part of the machining? In this link are the images of the end of the barrel. The only markings anywhere on it are on the site itself and says "Lyman". No other markings are anywhere on the barrel. Anyone have any thoughts on what this might be? If it's just a knock-off barrel I'd like to pull it off and put an original back on.

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Edited by - Gorf on 10/30/2017 5:54:33 PM

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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3142 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2017 :  6:22:41 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That tells us nothing about the barrel other than someone removed the original sight and soldered on a Lyman front sight. We need pictures of the entire barrel, top bottom and sides.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1061 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2017 :  6:50:02 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi and welcome to the Carbine forum from New Mexico!

It appears that you barrel has been "sporterized" by the addition of a ramp sight base with a Lyman gold bead inserted into the base. If it were a USGI barrel, it has been turned down to remove a step about 1 1/2 inch from the muzzle and polished before bluing. The sight base has been sweated onto the barrel, probably with silver solder.

A USGI barrel would be parkerized, matte in appearance matching the rest of the metal parts and have a manufacturers name such as Rockola or Underwood stamped behind the front sight. It's possible that there may be a manufacturer's name stamped onto the side of the gas cylinder. As you suspect, it may be that it is a commercial replacement barrel but not necessarily. USGI barrels were usually retained and sporterized. I'm betting that this may be the case here.

It was common back in the '60's and '70's to sporterize carbines by replacing the original stock with a high end commercial stock and refinishing all the metal with a high polish and a deep blue. Often, provisions for mounting a scope would be made by drilling and tapping mounting holes on the side of the receiver and sometimes the rear sight dovetail would be completely removed and a commercial precision aperture rear sight would be installed in it's place.

More pictures of the rest of the barrel and receiver group are needed to know for sure.

JackP
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Gorf
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2017 :  12:41:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gorf's Homepage Send Gorf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jackp

~snip~
It was common back in the '60's and '70's to sporterize carbines by replacing the original stock with a high end commercial stock and refinishing all the metal with a high polish and a deep blue. Often, provisions for mounting a scope would be made by drilling and tapping mounting holes on the side of the receiver and sometimes the rear sight dovetail would be completely removed and a commercial precision aperture rear sight would be installed in it's place.



Thank you this is actually hugely helpful. This is probably exactly what happened to my rifle. I will absolutely get some more photos so I can show the detail. But what you describe is basically how my rifle started out. This is the picture of it when I bought it:

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1061 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2017 :  2:28:03 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow! That's a beautiful conversion. If it were mine I would have left it as is. How far along are you with the restoration?

JackP
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Gorf
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  1:12:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gorf's Homepage Send Gorf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, I took a bunch of photos from various angles around the guts of the rifle. These are all the high-res versions so you should be able to click on them and zoom in.

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1061 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  2:00:35 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The barrel on your carbine probably is original. It looks like a Type 1 (one piece) Underwood or Winchester, one of the barrel manufacturers commonly used on early QHMC carbines. Of course it has been turned down, polished and blued. As I suspected, all the external metal surfaces have been highly polished and blued which is far from original. As I suggested in my previous post, I would leave it as-is. In order to make it "look" original you would have to replace the barrel and stock and parkerize all the metal. Even then, you won't really be able to make it look original. My guess is that would cost you nearly as much as replacing it with an un-messed with QHMC. Still, it would never really be worth more than it is in it's present condition, which I think is beautiful.

Might I ask, what did you pay for it? Decent early Army Ordinance rebuilt QHMC carbines can be found for under $1K.

P.S. I did notice that your carbine might have a rare early "dog-leg" hammer. If so. that part alone may be half the value of your carbine, assuming it hasn't been reblued. If this is the case, I suggest replacing it with a cheap post war hammer and using the proceeds of the sale of the "dog-leg" manner to go toward purchasing a more original carbine.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 11/01/2017 2:04:38 PM
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Gorf
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  3:12:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gorf's Homepage Send Gorf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I only paid $300. Part of an estate sale. I bought a really nice original GI stock for it for $100. So i'm not really a huge amount out of pocket. So, yeah maybe I will just fix the sport stock and put it all back the way it was and hunt for something a little more unmolested.
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3142 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  3:56:11 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to agree with everything JackP said, including the probability of it being a GI barrel. If it is an Underwood, it is probably very accurate to boot. Yes, I would leave it alone. You can never make that one look original. Just too much has been done to it and it isn't worth the effort or cost to even try. Personally, I'd look for a GI rebuild and go from there.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1061 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  4:10:21 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gorf:

Can you post a closeup side view of the hammer?

JackP
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Gorf
Starting Member



USA
5 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  1:17:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gorf's Homepage Send Gorf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I added a couple images. Does this help?

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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3142 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  7:51:52 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
???? Is that an LT-Q type 1 dogleg?????

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1061 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  11:03:00 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It sure looks like it! Gorf, if it has it's original finish, you might have hit the jackpot!. Can you remove the hammer and take a couple more closeup pictures of it outdoors in the sunlight showing the markings. That way we can confirm the maker and Type and possibly verify if it has it's original finish. Use the op slide recoil spring guide to poke through the hole in the hammer plunger to compress the hammer spring and remove spring and plunger. Then the hammer pin can be pushed out to allow the removal of the hammer. Also, count the number of coils in the hammer spring. That might tell us if the carbine was really original before it was "sporterized". So far, everything else I've seen says original QHMC carbine. After you do this...well, we're not done yet.

JackP
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