M1CarbineForum
M1CarbineForum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Contractor Specific Discussion
 Bavarian Carbines
 why ?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

phillydude
Greenhorn Member


38 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2009 :  3:25:41 PM  Show Profile  Send phillydude an AOL message Send phillydude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
why is cmp auctioning off these. i cant seam to figure out wh ythey would bring a premium price, since they are hidiously covered in stampings and that purplish color.the way i see it,they should bring 25-30 % less than one not permenatly scarred

Google AdSense

USA
Mountain View


fstdraw
Junior Member



95 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2009 :  12:04:04 PM  Show Profile Send fstdraw a Private Message  Reply with Quote
CMP, like any other busniss, is out to make money, they have to. Unfortunatly the money is made off us, the people who like and shoot carbines. I agree it's too bad we can't get carbines for a better price (considering what CMP pays for them), but until the market is saturated with carbines, expect to pad the bottom line. I agree, the BC's I've seen are not top-notch.
Go to Top of Page

SMG1
Moderator



USA
840 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2009 :  6:27:37 PM  Show Profile Send SMG1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the ones that were imported in by Intrac in the the mid 1990's were the best of the bunch IMHO however before ole slick willy put and end to the importation of them there were about 7500 that didn't make it in before the cut off point hence the auctioning of them off there isn't enough to go around like the Italian returns. your not missing out on anything with these recent ones. here is a taste of what the 1990's returns were like You must be logged in to see this link. browse this sight if you haven't already done so.
Go to Top of Page

phillydude
Greenhorn Member



38 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2009 :  6:35:00 PM  Show Profile  Send phillydude an AOL message Send phillydude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i did see that site before,but can anyone tell me why they are going for premium prices? if anything, they are in my opinion,the least desired carbine out there with all the stampings on almost every part of the rifle. i would only pay 300-400 for one.
Go to Top of Page

SMG1
Moderator



USA
840 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  5:45:32 PM  Show Profile Send SMG1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
this also is a factor
Go to Top of Page

phillydude
Greenhorn Member



38 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2009 :  7:58:21 PM  Show Profile  Send phillydude an AOL message Send phillydude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah i guess the 40 year old political virgin has something to do with it, it really scares the hell out of me when i think of all the nazi like things he says that he would like to impliment
Go to Top of Page

Sleeplessnashadow
Starting Member



USA
19 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  12:03:05 AM  Show Profile Send Sleeplessnashadow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
CMP is auctioning the carbines with the Prison Guard, Game Warden, Municipal Police, and Border Guard markings only because they do not have a sufficient number of them to open them up to the volume required by offerring them as mail orders.

Different people have different interests. Even amongst the collectors. Some specialize in Inland, some Winchester, some all of the manufacturers. Some are interested in original accessories, some couldn't care less.

To someone who wants a GI carbine to look like it never went anywhere past the factory door, markings like those used by Bavaria and Austria are an abomination. However, once the carbines left the factory door they began the next chapter of their history. The history didn't stop once they were made.

If a carbine is documented as having been used by a high profile well known American during history (i.e. General Doolittle), does it not increase the interest and value regardless of what it looks like? Every ding, scratch, and mark has a history to it. Just because we don't know that history doesn't mean there was no history.

Would it be accurate to say that the majority of GI carbines produced during WWII went off to be used by an American GI during WWII? Do collectors value carbines that returned after WWII? What kind of condition would you expect of a carbine that was with a U.S. Marine island hopping towards Japan? Think of where and when that carbine was used.

Did history stop when WWII ended? How many carbines have had their WWII history removed by folks that want a good looking carbine? It's their carbine, and it's their interest.

So, if some people have an interest in the American Occupation of Germany and Austria, and would like to collect carbines that retain this history, they just have a different interest.

When I started researching the history of the Occupation carbines, very little accurate information about them was available. During the sixties up until today people have devalued these carbines. Stripped them of their history and sold them for the parts.

But once I was able to learn their history and share it, I noticed a change in interest, and a slow change in value. CMP landing these carbines used by Austria, some of which were bought from West German agencies, was a watershed for my research but also a major window that was opened to show people the history. Some people have taken an interest.

Take a look at the CMP auctions for the sets of 6 carbines, each with one of the 6 Bavaria agency names. They have been selling for upwards of $6400. These carbines are well used. WWII, West Germany, Austria. Never thought you'd see a Bavarian sell for over $1000, did you? Well, some people never thought they'd see a GI carbine sell for over $1000.

Value is what someone is willing to pay. The generally accepted value is based on an average of what most people are willing to pay. Obviously some people have taken an interest in these carbines. It's just another collector's niche.

If someone comes up with an M1 Carbine that has the markings of the Berlin Police in the American Sector, I'd pay well over what the majority of GI carbines go for. More than double. Why? That's my secret. Unless you have read my page on Berlin, you wouldn't know. And probably don't care. That's a good thing for me.

Rea import marks devaluing a carbine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standard by which import marked carbines have been assessed are the carbines returned from South Korea 1986-1992, most notably those brought back by Blue Sky, who became Arlington Ordnance.

Is it the import mark that devalues tha carbine, or, is it what the import mark generally signifies that devalues the carbine? Had those Blue Sky marked carbines been in mint condition, would their value have gone down because of the import mark? Lower than a beat up rebuilt GI carbine used by the Louisiana National Guard?

The first group of carbines brought back from Austria were in 1993 by INTRAC of Knoxville, TN. The import mark is small and easily missed. The carbines were generally in very good condition, albeit they had some later parts on them as the Austrians didn't regard them as collectibles, they were more interested in function and reliability. About 1/3 of these had Bavaria markings. Leading to the assumption the Austrian markings were done by Bavaria. The few that knew, did share. Yes, some were refinished. Yes, some have a purple to copper colored trigger housing because the Austrians were unaware of the effect of the high nickel content requiring a hotter bluing solution. For what purpose did they refinish them? Their interest in the carbines dictated what they did.

To admit how weird I am, I have a Blue Sky barrel being framed for presentation. Any idea why? Not to shoot, obviously.

After examining the history of Blue Sky and the significance of those ratty carbines and Garands they brought back from South Korea, I feel Blue Sky is the company that broke the back of the anti-gunners and government officials that had prevented us from importing and buying carbines since 1968. They did it when their first two shipments were seized by U.S. Customs. Blue Sky filed Federal Court litigation that caused Customs and ATF to change their Code of Regulations so it was compliant with Congressional law that allowed those guns to be imported. The law had been passed a few years prior but Customs, ATF, and the anti-gun crowd were backdooring it, blocking the imports.

I'm saving that Blue Sky barrel as it may be needed once again, when I use it to whack some anti-gun politician over the head to knock some sense into them, or out of them.

Jim
BavarianM1Carbines.com
M1CarbinesInc.com

P.S. yes, I'm researching those other black sheep, the commercial carbines. History is what history was. I got tired of people being rude to the people who own them when they asked a simple question. Now people have somewhere to refer them too so they don't have to deal with it if they don't want. I'm more than happy too. Yes, some have had issues. But some have also been loyal good shooters for people who leave the nice collectibles for those who are interested in them. Different interests.

Edited by - Sleeplessnashadow on 10/04/2009 12:20:47 AM
Go to Top of Page

Sleeplessnashadow
Starting Member



USA
19 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  12:06:17 AM  Show Profile Send Sleeplessnashadow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By the way, CMP is into making money. The prices they are asking for the Bavarians surprised even me. But, they know something most folks don't. CMP is out of the carbine business after these Bavarians are gone. They may get some from Greece in a year or so, but the carbine side of the armory is empty and the lights have been turned out.

In regards to folks thinking CMP charges too much for their rifles, especially given they don't pay for them and get them for free, try buying a carbine anywhere else for those prices, and have the money go to support the shooting sports instead of someone's personal bank account. Supporting the shooting sports is an investment in the future for gun owners.

Also notice that some people buy carbines from CMP and turn around and sell them for almost twice as much as they paid. I'd rather see CMP make that money because of what it's used for.

To someone who is dying of thirst, the cup's not half empty, it's half full.

Edited by - Sleeplessnashadow on 10/04/2009 12:28:39 AM
Go to Top of Page

rhuet67
Starting Member



USA
3 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  06:23:27 AM  Show Profile Send rhuet67 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My Bavarian IBM is my favorite out of the three Carbines I own. It is the best shooter, most reliable and nicest looking. I would pick up a Bavarian Carbine before just about anything else to take home to shoot.

Go to Top of Page

macgunner01
Advanced Member



298 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2009 :  11:06:15 PM  Show Profile Send macgunner01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to mention, a LOT of Bavarian carbines escaped post-war rebuilding, hence the plethora of early and original parts. Wouldn't it be nice to have an original carbine, with all original parts, marked the way Bavaria did (with the last 4 of the serial)? That gives it provenance, saying that the carbine has been together since they received it (just after the war).

Just my $0.02



------------------------------------------
Carbine Club / GCA Member
"Carbine Guru in Training"
------------------------------------------

Go to Top of Page

campperrykid
Greenhorn Member



25 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  08:48:48 AM  Show Profile Send campperrykid a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Lots of truth & wisdom here:
quote:
Originally posted by Sleeplessnashadow


...(Snip for brevity)....

To admit how weird I am, I have a Blue Sky barrel being framed for presentation. Any idea why? Not to shoot, obviously.

After examining the history of Blue Sky and the significance of those ratty carbines and Garands they brought back from South Korea, I feel Blue Sky is the company that broke the back of the anti-gunners and government officials that had prevented us from importing and buying carbines since 1968. They did it when their first two shipments were seized by U.S. Customs. Blue Sky filed Federal Court litigation that caused Customs and ATF to change their Code of Regulations so it was compliant with Congressional law that allowed those guns to be imported. The law had been passed a few years prior but Customs, ATF, and the anti-gun crowd were backdooring it, blocking the imports.

I'm saving that Blue Sky barrel as it may be needed once again, when I use it to whack some anti-gun politician over the head to knock some sense into them, or out of them.

Jim
BavarianM1Carbines.com
M1CarbinesInc.com

....( Sfb)....




Thanks for all of your hard work and rock solid research. Those websites are a national treasure.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
M1CarbineForum © 2007-2017 M1CarbineForum Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000
RSS Feed 1 RSS Feed 2
Powered by ForumCo 2000-2008
TOS - AUP - URA - Privacy Policy