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Frogman
Starting Member


USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2017 :  4:33:48 PM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My dad left me an m1 Carbine. SN 111709 with UFC stamped below sn. Can anyone tell who made it and when? Thanks in advance!

Jimmy

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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
300 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2017 :  5:00:05 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've never seen one marked "UFC" but I'm betting on Universal Firearms Corporation. The serial number would put it just into the transition from a generation-1 to a generation-2. My best guesstimate on the DOM is 1967-1968 based on it being an early generation 2 serial number.

Edited by - americanboy on 11/07/2017 5:19:57 PM
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2017 :  6:09:42 PM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks American boy. It needs a top handguard and rear sight but not in that bad condition. Thanks again!

Jimmy
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
300 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2017 :  6:24:59 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It was likely wearing a metal vented hand-guard. Any M1 carbine rear sight should fit the dovetail. Make sure it shoots before you invest a lot in it. This serial number range was the beginning of the Universal changes that gave the brand a bad name. What it is or isn't dosen't matter....it was your dad's and that's all that matters. I have my dad's guns and I'd not even consider shooting them.
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johniv
Starting Member



USA
17 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2017 :  5:31:17 PM  Show Profile Send johniv a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome aboard sir.
John
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2017 :  6:03:52 PM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the welcome and the info!

Jimmy
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Jackp
Senior Member



USA
950 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2017 :  11:09:51 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Frogman and welcome to the Forum from New Mexico!

Does your carbine have a stamped steel slide? If so, it's definitely a Universal. The reason I ask is because Universal carbines usually say "Universal Hialeah, Fla" or "Universal Jacksonville, Ar" on the receiver, not "UFC". If it has a machined slide it might be an early inland. Can you post some pictures?

JackP
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
300 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  06:41:18 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:


Does your carbine have a stamped steel slide? If so, it's definitely a Universal. The reason I ask is because Universal carbines usually say "Universal Hialeah, Fla" or "Universal Jacksonville, Ar" on the receiver, not "UFC". If it has a machined slide it might be an early inland. Can you post some pictures?



Excellent point Jack. I was not completely sure that UFC actually means Universal, as I've not heard of one marked that way either. It would be great if OP's gun actually is an early Inland.
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  4:33:19 PM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How do you tell if it is machined slide or stamped slide? I can't find any other printing except UFC and SN.

Jimmy
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  4:44:31 PM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found more markings on barrel, faint but readable. EMT.and a circle with a 1 in it.

Jimmy
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
300 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  5:21:09 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Google-up m1carbinesinc.com

Select "commercial carbines" from the menu on the left, then select "companies and carbines". Scroll down thru the bullet bases and find Universal Manufacturing Company and click on that bullet base. This takes you to the Universal section. Just get familiar with the site and you can go back and select other manufacturers or USGI carbines, but if you look in "Universal changes", you will see the operating slide that is much different than any other carbine.They used these slides on the later gun and if you gun is in fact a Universal, the serial number indicates it should have the strange looking slide. But there is one thing to remember..."never say never and always does not mean always" when it comes to M1 Carbines.
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Jackp
Senior Member



USA
950 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  10:34:37 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jimmy, I've been unable to make sense out of any of the markings you described. I really think we need pictures.

JackP
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2017 :  08:45:24 AM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
JackP, I'm gonna try to post some pic. I don't know how to do it but I'll try and learn!

Jimmy
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Jackp
Senior Member



USA
950 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2017 :  09:00:14 AM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Download them to Imgur.com and post the link here.

JackP
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2017 :  1:54:01 PM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe American boy is right, early gen 2. Two recoil springs, set screw front sight and the sn. It is what it is. Tore down and cleaned, gonna test fire soon. Thanks all!! I

Jimmy
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Jackp
Senior Member



USA
950 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2017 :  2:39:42 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still like to see pictures. The markings, I think, are unusual. If you can, post them under the Commercial Carbines section.

JackP
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  08:30:17 AM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found photo of another receiver stamped UFC. The sn was even 8 from my sn. Still have not figured how to post pics.

Jimmy
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
300 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  09:01:26 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Universal did indeed change their markings several times, but UFC is not mentioned in any research sources I've seen. If Jackp doesn't recognize it...it surely makes me feel a little less ignorant...lol. It may have been marketed and sold by some vendor that procured some from Universal and re-branded them. Somebody here will have an answer to the mystery sooner-or-later.
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Jackp
Senior Member



USA
950 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  3:12:04 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jimmy,

After a little bit more research I found some info on your Universal carbine. Check out this web site. I think this is where you saw the photo you mentioned. Perhaps you could contact the author of this web site and maybe answer some of the questions he's asking. His name is Jim Mock and he is probably the best authority on commercial carbines.

You must be logged in to see this link.

JackP
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Sleeplessnashadow
Starting Member



USA
19 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  5:29:39 PM  Show Profile Send Sleeplessnashadow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Frogman

The UFC marked carbines were made by Universal Firearms but the Universal Firearms markings were removed with the UFC letters used instead. On at least one of the UFC marked carbines the Universal markings were crossed out instead of removed.

One occasion prior (1965) Universal ran a disclaimer in Shotgun News that someone else in FL was selling carbines Universal had made years prior (1962) and they weren't covered by Universal's warranty. This earlier occasion was a split of company owners and a business disagreement. These weren't the UFC carbines as all of the UFC carbines were the hybrids Universal began making at s/n 100,000 and up and introduced in 1967. But I suspect they stemmed from a similar split in ownership that occurred in early 1968.

The serial numbers of the ten UFC carbines I've been able to acquire info on so far range from 1115xx to 125704. The xx the owner didn't wish to share the full serial number. Serial numbers used by Universal Firearms also appear within this range so the UFC carbines were not a set block of serial numbers.

The UFC carbines have not had the holes drilled in the left side of the receiver for the scope mount. Their wood stocks were not those used by Universal. The handguards have been the metal ventilated handguards used by Universal. Universal carbines made during this time had the Universal name on top of the receiver between the rear sight and bolt. The UFC markings have been on the receiver bevel below the serial number. Some were stamped horizontally, some vertically.

All have been the same machining and configuration of the carbines made and sold by Universal during this serial number time. They are the hybrids introduced at s/n 100,000 most obvious by the opening in the slide handle for the right bolt lug. Less obvious until fireld stripping were the twin recoil springs that had replaced the single recoil spring.

Initially the hybrids had a set screw and metal key attached to the slide to act as a guide in the slide channel of the receiver and allow for dismantling the slide from the carbine. They discontinued the screw/key by s/n 109614 by milling a dismount notch in the receiver and changing the slide to include machining for the lug that traveled back and forth in the slide channel.

I've been able to communicate with the owners of 7 of the 10 UFC carbines I have info on. All indicated they had not experienced any problems with their carbines. Keep in mind these carbines are 50 years old now and subject to the wear any firearm goes through in it's lifetime.

More follows below the pics...









The hybrids made by Universal have had a fair amount of criticism over the years. These hybrids were no longer M1 carbines. They fired the same ammo and looked similar but the design change made almost all of the parts incompatible with their GI counterparts. Universal had dropped the U.S. designation prior to the hybrids. They didn't use the M1 designation. The caliber on the receiver was a legal requirement.

I don't want to get too far off the UFC topic so I'll end the hybrid topic with Universal made over 480,000 carbines from 1962 thru 1984. 380,000 of these were the hybrids. To date no other commercial carbine maker has come close to making this many. None have survived as long as Universal did.

Exactly what happened that resulted in the UFC carbines we may never know. Most if not all of the people who would know are no longer with us. Those I've interviewed who joined Universal later were unaware of the UFC carbines.

The hybrid made by Universal was patented. It wasn't a carbine someone would go to the necessary lengths to duplicate. I'm guessing when I say I think whoever acquired them did so before they had finished complete assembly by Universal.

The marking you described on the barrel, where are they located on the barrel?

Jim
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Tuna
Moderator



3191 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  8:49:55 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jim, Great information as always. Thank you very much. I wonder if those carbines were a payment to a major investor or partner who wanted out of the business instead of cash funds?
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Frogman
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2017 :  10:26:41 AM  Show Profile  Send Frogman an AOL message Send Frogman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sleepless, my bad. The markings are not on the barrel but on the barrel band/bayonet lug.That's lots of info! So are these Universal's some sort of "bastard" they built?

Jimmy
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