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 Carbine on the battle field
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Broken Arrow
Junior Member


USA
79 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2010 :  11:15:24 PM  Show Profile Send Broken Arrow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We all collect and shoot the little carbine just for the shear enjoyment now. I always wonder what combat troops thought of the carbine who fought it. I have a old friend who landed in Belgium a week after the Bulge crossing the Rhine thru VE day. He called the carbine a "pop" gun he just made the German's mad the Garand got the job done.

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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
255 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2010 :  2:17:02 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My wife's cousin (from her father's generation) was a Marine platoon commander. He is nearly 90 today, and sharp as a tack. He retired as a Marine Reserve Lt. Colonel many years ago.

He told me of a time on Saipan when he was on his way unescorted to an aid station to have a shrapnel wound dressing changed. He happened upon a clearing where he saw some uniformed legs sticking out from some bushes. At first he thought they were dead Marines, then realized they were Japanese. Then the legs moved! As it turned out, there had been a skirmish there the night before and there were several dead Japanese lying about. The legs he saw were three wounded Japanese, and when he moved for a better look, he saw them with grenades in their hands, getting set to throw them. He fired his M1 carbine from the hip, emptying the 15 round magazine, killing all three.

He said the carbine was a good weapon, but lacked the "knock-down power" of the M1 Garand.

Another time, he killed a sniper in a tree with his carbine. I don't recall if he mentioned the distance.

For accuracy, he said the Springfield 1903 was better than the Garand.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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hiller
Advanced Member



USA
197 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2010 :  05:38:40 AM  Show Profile Send hiller a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An elderly customer who i've done business with for years stopped in the other day (9/2/10) and i asked him if he had any old guns laying around the house he no longer needed. He metioned a few shotguns he had and how he couldn't part with them for one reason or another. Well the conversation turned towards m1 carbines as they usualy do around me. Turns out the guy was a 2nd division army vet during korea. He told me in korea he carried an m2
. Of coarse i ask if he brought it home with him after the war and if i could see it. Well he said he hadn't brouhgt it back and that he was just glad as hell to get the chance to go home when he did. When he left his unit was preparing to retake hill 165. From what he said that hill was a real bitch. Anyway he said if he had brought his m2 back after the war there would have been no way he would ever sell it. He then proceeded to reflect on how the little carbine had saved his life several times and how it always "worked like a machine". He also mentioned his rifle had a big #9 painted on the side of the buttstock. I'm sure some guys will always under rate the m1 carbine. This fellow bill remembered his carbine,you could tell by his eyes, with great fondness. I'm in the prosses of trying to get a pic of bill with his m2. Will post pics if i can get them.
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drcotlar
Starting Member



USA
4 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2012 :  7:01:45 PM  Show Profile Send drcotlar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BEYU

My wife's cousin (from her father's generation) was a Marine platoon commander. He is nearly 90 today, and sharp as a tack. He retired as a Marine Reserve Lt. Colonel many years ago.

He told me of a time on Saipan when he was on his way unescorted to an aid station to have a shrapnel wound dressing changed. He happened upon a clearing where he saw some uniformed legs sticking out from some bushes. At first he thought they were dead Marines, then realized they were Japanese. Then the legs moved! As it turned out, there had been a skirmish there the night before and there were several dead Japanese lying about. The legs he saw were three wounded Japanese, and when he moved for a better look, he saw them with grenades in their hands, getting set to throw them. He fired his M1 carbine from the hip, emptying the 15 round magazine, killing all three.

He said the carbine was a good weapon, but lacked the "knock-down power" of the M1 Garand.

Another time, he killed a sniper in a tree with his carbine. I don't recall if he mentioned the distance.

For accuracy, he said the Springfield 1903 was better than the Garand.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin




Stephen
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dogsoldier0513
Starting Member



USA
21 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2012 :  08:47:05 AM  Show Profile Send dogsoldier0513 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My grandfather carried an M1 Carbine in Europe during 1943-44. He was in the US Army's Chenical Corps. In the late 1960s he acquired another one and kept it for years before passing it on to my dad. That should say something about what he thought about the little M1.
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David Fox
Greenhorn Member



USA
32 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2012 :  8:32:03 PM  Show Profile Send David Fox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the Mekong Delta in '68 the carbine was still carried by a significant number of ARVN, being rapidly replaced by M16s. Regional Forces ("Ruff Puffs")and paramilitary police were heavily armed with carbines and Garands. It was pitiful to see the small-statured Vietnamese try to wield the Garand: 'way too much gun. Some ARVN we paired-up with for sweeps carried Thompson submachine guns with the buttstocks removed. Again, an awfully heavy weapon for 110 pound soldiers. Given the problematical functioning of the early '16s (which I carried), the carbine was a reasonable alternative. In my experience, the M1 carbine was just right for the ARVN, the ammo was light weight, too, it worked when one pulled the trigger, and the close ranges didn't seem to put it at a terrible disadvantage. Digging up VC arms cashes, I found the odd M2 along with a potpouri of other long guns, but all VC we encountered carried the Type 57 ChiCom AK. or RPGs or machineguns.

Dave Fox
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jlwilliams
Junior Member



USA
78 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2012 :  08:49:04 AM  Show Profile Send jlwilliams a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My grandfather (93 tomorow) was in the 77th Infantry in the Pacific. During amphibious invasions, his job was to observe and adjust naval artilliry fire as part of a two man team. After a certain point in an operation, he would be back in a rifle company. While spotting artillery, he and his partner would carry carbines (the radio and binoculars really being their primary weapons in that job). He described the carbine as light enough to reach over the top of a hole and fire one handed and powerful enough to kill with. Once no longer carrying the radio they would swap back to Garands. He carried the Garand almost exclusively on Okinawa where his unit fought a long fight at all distances.

His first experience with the carbine was pre war in ROTC. They sent trick shooters around doing demmos with it. He said the jokes going around when they first saw the guns were "where does the cork go?" and the like. After watching guys make all sorts of shots with them (thrown targets and the like, a regular wild west shooting performance, from what I'm told) they were all more impressed with it.
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Shotar
Starting Member



USA
12 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2012 :  1:32:29 PM  Show Profile Send Shotar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My father carried one as an officer with the 101st. He loved it. Just the right size and weight to make it easy to carry, and enough bump for most encounters. Most of these fights were not taking place at extended open field ranges, they were in towns or through hedge rows. He said that the carbine was faster to shoot than the garand, held more rounds and was faster to reload.

Relying on the benevolence of an armed criminal is not a strategy, it's just stupid!
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ratpatrol
Starting Member



USA
11 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2012 :  6:08:54 PM  Show Profile Send ratpatrol a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dad carried an M2 in Vietnam; AF Loadmaster. It was small enough to carry in the 130s and not get in the way and easy to handle during "intense" pick-ups....as I recall him saying.
When I bought mine and mentioned hunting Dad kept saying make sure you X the bullets, if that says anthing about the round.
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imarangemaster
Advanced Member



USA
126 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2013 :  12:54:46 AM  Show Profile Send imarangemaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My dad carried a 1943 Inland on Iwo Jims. His brothers carried them at times in other areas of the PTO.. None of them had a bad thing to say about the carbine. Lets not forget Audie Murphy. He did quite well with the M1 carbine.
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imarangemaster
Advanced Member



USA
126 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2013 :  12:08:36 PM  Show Profile Send imarangemaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One should remember that ballistically, a 30 Carbine does at 100 what a 20" AR does at 175-200 and a 14.5 does at 125-150! I used performance charts on 5.56 from ammo oracle and compared them to 30 carbine.
Here is an interesting video of the 30 carbine from a M1A1 vs. a 12"x12" clay block: The carbine starts at 5:20. Compare it to 30-06 and 7.5 French earlier in the same clip.
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Edited by - imarangemaster on 01/13/2013 12:10:04 PM
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notabiker
Starting Member



USA
19 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2013 :  5:12:05 PM  Show Profile Send notabiker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
in 1968 i was in vietnam with the engineers. their was a arvin training camp close and i would watch as these 90 pound Vietnamese humped BARs to their rifle range. they also had grease guns and M1 carbines.

jc whailn
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7.62Nato
Starting Member



Canada
7 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2013 :  08:26:00 AM  Show Profile Send 7.62Nato a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My father was issued an M1 carbine during the 60's while he was in the Royal Lao Army. After the communist take over of Laos in 75 and our people headed for the jungles, he and many others used the M1 & M2 carbines as resistance fighters. They would also use them for hunting and he has killed a few banteng with it (close range he says, usually under 50 yards). He said the M1 Garands were too heavy for them to hump around and welcomed the M1 carbines when they were issued. He always talked about how handy the little rifle was during skirmishes along roads and trails at close range and always said they were the first to fire being that the commies were using the ak's and sks's which were slower to shoulder. During late 70's after communist take over and no resupply/refurbishing, the only complaint he talked about was tabs wearing out on slides to the point where they would jam and not operate properly. Their fix was basically bending the slide more (not sure what he meant by that). Never talked about not enough stopping power. Most fighting was under 100yrds and 100 pd commies didn't take much apparently. There is also some pics of resistance fighters still in Laos today who still have carbines that work. Some with stocks rotted away to basically the core but still firing.


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Some pics of resistance fighters in Laos, still using M1 carbines
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
255 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2013 :  1:04:58 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nato, thanks for those inspiring pictures.

It is too easy for us here in the United States to forget that the fight for freedom still goes on in many places in the world.

Unhappily, we now welcome into our political process some of the very kind of people who oppress freedom in other countries.

I think of them all as "goose-stepping little fascists". Fascists, communists and socialists are all brothers under the skin; they all resort to force in the end, when people won't cooperate with their plans.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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Tuna
Moderator



3193 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2013 :  3:39:02 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow what an assortment. M16A1, M1A1, a blooper, an AK47 and standard M1,s. A proud people that are still trying to get their freedom. I wish them all well.
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JGW06
Greenhorn Member



USA
37 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2014 :  1:34:09 PM  Show Profile Send JGW06 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My grandfather fought with the M1 carbine through France and Austria - 3rd Infantry Division. His engagements were not at hundreds of yards, and he preferred the carbine to the Garand. I assume for quickness of reloading, rounds on target, etc. it served him well.

JGW06
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f3clays
Starting Member



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2015 :  07:20:32 AM  Show Profile Send f3clays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I remember my Dad talking World War II as I remember he was talking about the invasion
of Sicily "our supply ship got sunk and all we had was those dammed ole carbines".

Ken

Ken
NRA TSRA NSCA LIFE
"our supply ship got sunk
and all we had was those dammed ole carbines" DAD
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Jefe
Starting Member



USA
17 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2016 :  09:33:49 AM  Show Profile Send Jefe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting stuff.
My first post.
My deceased dad was a SSG, "chemical mortar" section sgt, Co D, 305 IN, 77 Inf Div, from its activation to his DEROS/ ETS in NOV '45.
He told me that on Leyte, he was tired of carrying the heavy Garand, so the next time that he had the opportunity to pick up a carbine, he did.
Sometime thereafter, they suffered a Jap banzai charge. Heard the Japanese getting high and yelling prior. They also tied off their arms and legs w/ tourniquets to stop blood loss, if hit.
During their charge, he shot one Jap soldier several times w/ the carbine. Saw the dust rising off the japs uniform in the torso. The Jap soldier kept on coming. Finally, he fell over dead, several feet in front of my dad's foxhole
At earliest opportunity, my father got rid of the carbine and picked up a Garand.
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shadycon
Veteran Member



USA
1365 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2016 :  07:33:26 AM  Show Profile Send shadycon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
??????

M1's-R-FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!
TSMG's-R-MORE-FUN!!!!!
ENJOY LIFE & HAVE FUN!!
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wd4ngb
Starting Member



USA
20 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2016 :  5:59:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit wd4ngb's Homepage Send wd4ngb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The main problem with the Carbine, is the wrong people being assigned them, and not enough training on there use. I carried a one in Korea, and a cut down M2 Carbine in Nam. I was assigned a M14A1E1 in Nam, and it was just too bulky in most cases. The early M16 was available, but too many having problems with jamming. These were before the forward assist were added. My M2 did great, since it was used in under 100 yards all the time. Several of us oped to use the M2s, and after fine tuning several magazines, never had any problems. I did carry a spare bolt to use if needed. Used grease on the bolt lugs, and Cherry Juice often on the rest. The Cherry Juice was for hyd systems, but use to flush crud out, as much as lube.

I carried at least 20 different guns in my 22 years in the Army, and had no desire to have any of them now, except the Carbine.


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