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COSteve
Junior Member


73 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  10:41:54 AM  Show Profile Send COSteve a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, I took out my NPM and AO last weekend as the weather was decent (in the 50s) and had a blast with my son. While the NPM is too pristine to shoot much as it's his heirloom carbine, he does like to take it out once a year and run some through it just for grins.

Along with our 1911s, it felt real 'military' at the range. Anyway, we had a blast with both but most of the rds went through the AO as that's what it's for. Bowling pins at 100yds was quite fun and my son just beat out the 'old man' with the final score. (Forty yr younger eyes helps a lot.) All told, we went through almost 400rds of carbine and 200rds of 45acp so it was a great weekend.

When we got home and after we cleaned everything up and put them away, I proceeded to load up both the 45 and carbine mags again for the next outing. I noted that my stash of loaded 30 carbine ammo was getting a bit thin with only a few hundred rds of loaded ammo left in the 50 cal can. Also, when I went to put the cleaned brass in the keg ready to prep it, it dawned on me that I had way too much brass and way too little ammo.

As I have plenty of components on hand, I guess it's time to get busy handloading.

Steve

“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Confucius

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Tuna
Moderator



3201 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  3:45:10 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SOG has S&B on sale for about $15 a box if you buy a full 1000 case.
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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
61 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2018 :  09:41:12 AM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You must be logged in to see this link.

We can easily go through 300 rounds in one two hour outing. Oh so fast. Inland M1 with a registered M2 trigger housing full of the good stuff including the fun switch. 100% function.

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply.

Edited by - HB of CJ on 01/10/2018 09:54:38 AM
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COSteve
Junior Member



73 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2018 :  10:45:43 AM  Show Profile Send COSteve a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tuna

SOG has S&B on sale for about $15 a box if you buy a full 1000 case.

That's triple what it costs me to handload them.

Steve

“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Confucius
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Tuna
Moderator



3201 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2018 :  7:49:35 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know what your saying and understand and agree with that. But not everyone here reloads and the $15 a box is not a bad price right now. It beats SG prices by almost $3 a box.

Edited by - Tuna on 01/11/2018 7:52:14 PM
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COSteve
Junior Member



73 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2018 :  10:02:05 AM  Show Profile Send COSteve a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, I agree. Just saying what it costs me. I understand not handloading as I only got into it about 14 yrs ago. When I was younger and the family was still growing, the money just wasn't there to enjoy the sport the way I can now. I just had to learn to be patient . . . . . . . . . . . right now!!!!

Steve

“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Confucius
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Eyospt
Greenhorn Member



USA
44 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2018 :  08:40:07 AM  Show Profile  Send Eyospt an AOL message Send Eyospt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The best price I found at SGAMMO was $16.99......The $15 must have been a sale!
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COSteve
Junior Member



73 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2018 :  6:40:59 PM  Show Profile Send COSteve a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Got a wild hair yesterday and prep'd the 2,466 pieces of 30 Carbine brass I mentioned above on my 650 with casefeeder in just over 2˝ hrs. This morning, my wife went up to our son's place to help him with somethings leaving me with the dogs and time to myself. As it was cold, a bit cloudy, and a bit windy, I decided to turn my prep'd brass into 30 Carbine ammo.

6˝ hrs later (including a quick bite to eat and of course cleaning everything up and putting everything back in it's place) and now I have 2ea 50cal ammo cans full of 110grn ball 30 Carbine ammo. The first can was empty so it held 1,600 rds comfortably and the second was where the remaining 861 rds went, topped off by the previous 800rds I had left from my last load job of them.

So, now I have a bit over 3,250 rds of 30 Carbine ammo in cans and another 300 rds in magazines for me, my son, and others to enjoy. For those sharp eyed varmints out there you'll note that I prep'd 2,466 pieces of brass but only loaded 2.461 rds of ammo. Yep, I screwed up 5 pieces of brass through carelessness.

BTW, total cost of producing the ammo was $324.85 (13.2˘ per rd) vs the cheapest brass cased ammo I can find on line; Prvi Partizan for a total of $812.13 (shipping was free on over $200 order). So, my total of 9 hrs enjoying my handloading hobby over 2 days netted me a savings of $487.28. BTW, I still have enough bullets and carbine powder to produce just over 1,800 rds more of 30 Carbine (I've got tons of SR primers as well).

Steve

“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Confucius
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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
61 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  4:56:54 PM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent post. Did you include the total cost of your hand loading gear? Everything needed for the .30 Carbine? Everything? I like your post because we are right at that non calculate able point of returning to hand loading the .30 Carbine. The only thing stopping us is the available time. And here I thought retirement would consist of sitting on the front porch sipping iced tea. Ha ha. :)

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply.

Linux Mint 17 spell check at times is a hoot.

Edited by - HB of CJ on 01/14/2018 4:57:45 PM
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
319 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  08:18:52 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've ran-the-numbers on this and results can vary depending on the embedded cost of the equipment, such as dies, press, scales, priming and trimming tools...etc. Considering the use of your own brass and the per-round cost for primer, powder, projectile and pro-rated cost of the equipment, you'd have to load somewhere north of 2000 rounds to reach a break-even point at which you're saving $ and the more expensive your tools, the more expensive it gets. If you're buying brass at around 20-cents a pop, you're never going to break-even, or realize a savings. The cost of the components alone and 20-cent brass exceeds the commercial cost of the ammo. For those already having the tools, it's a natural and relatively inexpensive step and pay-out is much sooner.

If you're a casual shooter and don't reload already, commercial prices seem to be very reasonable as compared to what it once was.
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RASelkirk
Greenhorn Member



47 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  5:15:40 PM  Show Profile Send RASelkirk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just curious, (about) how many times can one load a piece of brass before it's trashed?

Russ
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garryj
Starting Member



USA
2 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  10:26:17 PM  Show Profile Send garryj a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It depends on how hot you load them, how tight your chamber is(less stretching=less metal fatigue), and the thickness of the case. I've loaded Lake City brass up to 12 times with no signs of excessive wear. That being said, I've loaded Aguila brass as little as 6 times and had to throw it out due to cases splitting. Same loads, different brass. All other brass brands I have reloaded(Remington, Top Brass, and PPU aka Prvi Partizan)fall somewhere in between.

Garry

There is no such thing as overkill - only open fire and I need to reload!
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
319 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  05:53:53 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RASelkirk

Just curious, (about) how many times can one load a piece of brass before it's trashed?

Russ



If one sets his equipment up to duplicate the same round every time, it may require trimming the sized brass every time. If one loads the rounds one-at-a-time and adjust the dies accordingly, they may not require trimming at each loading. You'd have to know-your-gun to determine how long is too long, or simply randomly trim to say...1.285 every time. Every time you trim the brass, you shorten the case-life. Don't over-work your brass. Bell only enough to allow bullet starting.

Of course, if you have developed an accurate load that you like, you'd want to trim the cases to the exact same length to achieve a constant head-space. If you're just shooting and reasonable accuracy works, they can vary in length, but not to exceed the no-go of the chamber. If your gun no-go's at 1.297, then you know you can shoot longer brass, but this is something you have to be particular about with a particular gun. The tighter the head-space the more accurate the gun. The carbine was never designed for target work, so it's very forgiving.

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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
61 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  11:28:16 AM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One of the important reasons we MAY return to the fun and madness of hand loading the .30 Carbine for USGI Carbines is the need for precision ammunition. Trimming the cases to a precise predetermined length also is a great SAFETY concern.

And of course the other reason is that hand loading is just plain fun. I remember all night sessions loading up a bunch of 30.06, .45 acp and .30 Carbine. Soft rock music. Good lighting. Excellent soft stool. Be dawns light outside. Wow!

Yet another (?) reason to hand load the .30 Carbine is a forlorn hope of turning a pigs ear into a silk purse. We have a sweet spot Inland that already shoots 3" at 100 yards with good conditions and young eyes. One inch groups beckon.

Wish us luck. :)
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COSteve
Junior Member



73 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  4:18:09 PM  Show Profile Send COSteve a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HB of CJ

Excellent post. Did you include the total cost of your hand loading gear? Everything needed for the .30 Carbine? Everything? I like your post because we are right at that non calculate able point of returning to hand loading the .30 Carbine. The only thing stopping us is the available time. And here I thought retirement would consist of sitting on the front porch sipping iced tea. Ha ha. :)

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply.

Linux Mint 17 spell check at times is a hoot.

As I've been handloading M1 Carbine for 14 years and with close to 15,000 rds of 30 Carbine ammo (as well as 15 other calibers), I've recovered the costs of all my reloading equipment many, many times over. So, absolutely, I included everything.

BTW, with close to 190,000rds reloaded in total, I've kept track of the total costs of all my equipment and components as well as the costs of Winchester White Box quality ammo at the time I bought the components so I have an accurate financial record of my costs and savings. (I.e., I don't compare costs of components I bought 6 years ago with the costs of ammo today.)

All told, deducting the total cost of my equipment and all the components and consumables I've used to produce the ammo, and then comparing those costs to the then cost of buying whatever ammo I produced, I've saved myself over $28,900, not including the $487.28 for the 30 Carbine ammo or the 460 rds of 357mag ammo I handloaded this morning.

As to any labor cost calculations, it's a hobby and like all hobbies, no one 'charges' themselves a labor cost enjoying it. Neither does anyone ever 'charge' themselves for the time they spend on things like posting on the internet either.

Steve

“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Confucius
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RASelkirk
Greenhorn Member



47 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  4:52:40 PM  Show Profile Send RASelkirk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by COSteve

quote:
Originally posted by HB of CJ

Excellent post. Did you include the total cost of your hand loading gear? Everything needed for the .30 Carbine? Everything? I like your post because we are right at that non calculate able point of returning to hand loading the .30 Carbine. The only thing stopping us is the available time. And here I thought retirement would consist of sitting on the front porch sipping iced tea. Ha ha. :)

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply.

Linux Mint 17 spell check at times is a hoot.

As I've been handloading M1 Carbine for 14 years and with close to 15,000 rds of 30 Carbine ammo (as well as 15 other calibers), I've recovered the costs of all my reloading equipment many, many times over. So, absolutely, I included everything.

BTW, with close to 190,000rds reloaded in total, I've kept track of the total costs of all my equipment and components as well as the costs of Winchester White Box quality ammo at the time I bought the components so I have an accurate financial record of my costs and savings. (I.e., I don't compare costs of components I bought 6 years ago with the costs of ammo today.)

All told, deducting the total cost of my equipment and all the components and consumables I've used to produce the ammo, and then comparing those costs to the then cost of buying whatever ammo I produced, I've saved myself over $28,900, not including the $487.28 for the 30 Carbine ammo or the 460 rds of 357mag ammo I handloaded this morning.

As to any labor cost calculations, it's a hobby and like all hobbies, no one 'charges' themselves a labor cost enjoying it. Neither does anyone ever 'charge' themselves for the time they spend on things like posting on the internet either.



That, Steve, is an amazing amount of reloading!

Russ
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COSteve
Junior Member



73 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  6:25:20 PM  Show Profile Send COSteve a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I reload for both myself and my son and we competed for a few years and really burned through the ammo practicing. Further, my son goes out with friends and goes through .223/5.56, 40s&w, and 45acp like grains of sand through his fingers. I started handloading on a 550B but when I decided that I needed a casefeeder, especially to save time loading necked rifle brass that takes 2 passes through the press, I sold my 550B and set up a 650 w/casefeeder so I could up my production rates without killing myself working at my hobby.

I should note that I've been retired 10yrs last September so I have more time than many of you to handload which makes it easier to keep up with the demand. However, it also gives me plenty of time to make empty brass myself and I have to admit, I love shooting my Rossi 357mag and Uberti 45 Colt leverguns, M1 Carbine and M1A, and my Mini-14 as well as my 357mag SA Cav and 45 Colt SA Army with my levers and my 1911 and custom Glock G20/21L where I shoot both 10mm and 45 Super. Then, there's my practice with my CCW G23 and my ARs.

Truth be told, I also really enjoy handloading for all my calibers and bullet combinations which currently sit at 28 pistol combinations in 7 calibers and 24 rifle combinations in 9 calibers (only 2 of which are for my M1 Carbines).

Steve

“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Confucius
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COSteve
Junior Member



73 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  3:25:27 PM  Show Profile Send COSteve a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RASelkirkThat, Steve, is an amazing amount of reloading!

Russ

Since just before Christmas I've been replenishing my stocks of ammo for next year. I really enjoy the relaxing time producing my ammo but I think I'm finally done. I might have a 100 or so 45 Super that might get done later, however, I've got some other projects that are taking priority as I've got enough of each caliber to last me this next year. All told, I handloaded 8,400rds in 6 different calibers between mid December to end of January, about 6 weeks. All told, I handloaded 4,700 rifle and 3,700 pistol calibers as follows:

* 110grn RN 30 Carbine: 2,460 rds
* 62grn Hornady fmj 5.56: 2,100 rds
* 62grn Hornady HPBT 5.56: 50 rds
* 200grn X-Treme 45acp: 2,500 rds
* 255grn X-Treme 45 Colt: 700 rds
* 158grn Rainier 357mag: 500 rds
* 150grn X-Treme 30-30: 91 rds

When we say, "that's some heavy lifting." sometimes we mean it literally! Just for grins, I decided to calculate the combined weights of the components I handled as well as the combined weigh of the finished ammo. The results are listed below:

* Total weight of the bullets used is 1,175,050 grns or 167.86 lbs.
* Total weight of the brass used is 746,064 grns or 106.58 lbs.
* Total weight of the powder used is 116,225 grns or 16.60 lbs.
* Total weight of the primers used is 31,343 grns or 4.48 lbs.
* The total weight of the ammo produced is 2,068,682 grns or 295.53 lbs!!

As to the money I saved, let's just say it was a ton and be done!

While the time I spent I consider part of my hobby, it really wasn't all that much as the 357mag took about 1 hr, the 45 Colt, just under 2 hrs, the 45acp right at 4.5 hrs, the 5.56 (including case prep) a hair over 7 hrs, and the 30 Carbine right at 6.5 hrs total. So, all told I spent about 21 hrs over the 5+ weeks leisurely enjoying my hobby and saving a ton of cash.

During that time, with case prep on the 5.56, 30 Carbine, and 30-30 brass, I've processed a total of 13,100 pieces of brass (the 5.56, 30 Carbine, and 30-30 twice through my press for case prep, then handloading) during that time, proving to me that my casefeeder and trimmer on my Dillon 650 were worth every single nickel they cost me those many years ago when I upgraded from my 550B.

ETA: BTW: If you're interested in my weight calculations, here are the average weights of the brass and primers I used.

* 30 Carbine - Winchester Brass Case: 75.0 grns
* 5.56 NATO - LC Brass Case: 96.1 grns
* 45acp - Winchester Brass Case: 91.0 grns
* 45 Colt - Starline Brass Case: 111.5 grns
* 357mag - Starline Brass Case: 73.5 grns
* 30-30 - Winchester Brass Case: 139.0 grns

* Winchester SR primers: 3.3 grns
* CCI 300 LP primers: 4.4 grns
* Winchester LR primers: 4.4 grns

Steve

“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Confucius
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