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 My first carbine: QH
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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member


9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  10:04:55 AM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So....here it goes...
Quality Hardware Receiver serial number 468XXXX

underwood barrel, 8-44, bomb mark with P Mark 4.5 inches from muzzle

Stock with "P-J" mark in sling well, has a P under the hand grip (wartime replacement?)

Front site unmarked

Hand guard has what appears to be "HI" on the underside

Type 1 band, no markings (I'm pretty sure this is a fake). Barrel and hand guard bear marks that would make me assume the type 3 band and bayonet lug were removed.

Mag catch with underlined "M"

Trigger housing marked .U., underwood, not sure of this is correct.

Hammer marked "LT-Q"

Trigger is Quality Hardware, has a "Q" and some other letters, but I don't have the rifle right near me at the moment and haven't taken pics

Sear marked "BOB"

Firing pin marked "NL-Q"

Rear flip sight with a small "s" on the left, no other markings. I believe this to be a fake.

Butt plate unmarked as far as I can tell. Dot pattern.

Bolt is marked "N-14", National Postal Meter I believe. Flat bolt. This is another part in not sure is supposed to be on this gun...

The index marks on the barrel and receiver line up nicely. The gun will fire reasonably well with full metal jackets, but has to be tilted back or "shaken" to fire soft points. I did this once to test, not doing anymore of that. I am pretty sure I have a headspace issue, have changed firing pins without it changing the FTF issue. Someone probably tried their damnedest to make this look like an "as issued" carbine, but from what I have learned in the last couple of weeks, it was imported and rebuilt previously (the import marks on the right side of the barrel have been pounded on, but I can see they were "CAI GEORGIA, VT").

Anyway, I've done the dumb things. I will admit it. Don't know what I know now a month ago. I have been Gunbrokered and Riverbanked, ready to learn the right stuff. I will post pics later, but if anyone would like to set me strait on the information I have given so far, let it fly.

All I want is a firing carbine now. I'm selling this thing to anyone else, I couldn't sleep at night if I did.

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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member



9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  10:08:19 AM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I meant, "not selling", lol. I wouldn't sell this to my worst enemy.
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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member



9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  10:40:48 AM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Recoil plate is marked "LJ". I believe the stock is a Jewel wartime replacement. Perhaps the recoil plate is a Jewel as well?

I figure this gun is worth about the price of a happy meal at this point. Except...I'm not real happy lol.

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Tuna
Moderator



3249 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  11:18:34 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You have pretty much covered everything on your carbine and your right on all counts. But it's a typical rebuilt carbine that was imported and being CIA it's a good chance of being from Israel. Should be in decent shape and a good shooter. You may not have a headspace issue. It maybe that the rounds your using are too short to start with. I have found some factory ammo to be on the short side brass wise. It should be about 1.285 in length new. If it's less then 1.280 then it's the problem and not the carbine. The vast majority of carbines don't have any headspace problems, Barrels wear more at the muzzle then anywhere else from cleaning rods. The other thing to check is the condition of the extractor in the bolt. If it's not quite working properly then that too can cause problems. If worse comes to worse then change the extractor for a new type 3 extractor and try it out.

Edited by - Tuna on 02/11/2016 11:20:24 AM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1034 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  11:28:49 AM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It sounds like you've done a lot of research on your carbine so far and have pretty well nailed the details. Will check in again when you post some pictures. I don't think the firing pin has much to do with the FTF issues. Soft points are typically a problem and you might have to tinker with the combination of magazine, recoil spring, mag catch and feed ramp polish to get better results. They weren't made for soft points (or plated bullets for that matter). If they feed FMJ okay, that's what they're supposed to do. My favorite carbine is an early QHMC and I had to leap through fiery hoops to get it to feed reliably. There's a reason the arsenals upgraded a lot of the bolt/slide/mag catch parts, etc. I finally had to put later parts in my QHMC to make it work reliably. Check out this thread:

You must be logged in to see this link.

This is the type of exercise you might have to undertake to resolve FTF problems with FMJ bullets. No promises on soft points.


JackP
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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member



9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  12:05:32 PM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm...that would make sense. The mags do hang pretty loose. The barrel measured 2.3 at the muzzle, and I measured it with a 30.06 USGI round I had laying around and it also seems to be consistent with what I have seen for that type of measurement, basically meaning the barrel has about 1/2 of its life left.

I am working some long hours this week, but I will try to have some pics up soon. You guys have given me some hope at least, I was pretty depressed about this silly thing. My dad was stationed at White Sands missile range in the mid 50s and always talked about his M1 carbine, even owned an Inland that he sold after he got sick. He's still with us, but isn't in any kind of capacity to shoot anymore. He perked up when I brought this over to the house the other day. I just wanted him to see it run flawlessly once.

Where is the best place to get the type 3 catch? I have done some looking around, just wanted to know opinions...


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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1034 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  12:44:53 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you have an underline "M" mag catch, you already have a Type 4, which is best. Check to see if it pushes the magazine forward under the force of the mag catch plunger spring. The same spring also served to retain the safety. It may be weak or you may have an earlier type plunger/spring assembly which is a little bit shorter. Or your mag catch may just be worn down on the face where it contacts the magazine. You can find Type 4 NOS mag catches on Ebay for ~$20. It's the one with the tab on the side to support 30 round magazines. There's a seller named Nenel3 in France. His prices and delivery are good and usually freight is free.

BTW, my Dad was at White Sands after WWII until the '70's. He was a civilian missile technician. Worked with all the German rocket scientists. Maybe they knew each other.

JackP
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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member



9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  1:19:16 PM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think my last reply went through...

Anyway, my dad was a bit of a nut in the army. He once went drinking with some buddies off base and the brakes went out on his old car. They ended up plowing through a gas station. That might be a story that would be remembered lol. He also drove a deuce and a half into the back of another truck while checking out some gals on the street in El Paso. Like I said...kind of a nut. If your dad was on guard duty in the 50s, he might have met up with my dad.

So the mag does hang a bit slack, can be pushed forward a bit at the base with some pressure. I looked at the pics in the link, the QH on there looks similar to mine in regards to that gap shown in the pics compared to the Inland. Also, my slide will lock back after firing a promag to empty, I can defeat this with little effort by pushing forward on the charging handle. Perhaps the recoil spring is indeed weak. The recoil tube doesn't appear to have a Q on the end, the recoil rod is pointed at both ends.

Looks like I might need to replace the recoil spring, catch, and safety (this one is push button, but the wear isn't consistent and I'm sure it's a fake). I might try all that and give it another go with the fully jacketed ammo I have. I have some Hornady 30 carbine FTX ammo as well. Might see if that runs any different. So far, it would shoot Aguila FMJ fairly consistent with only a couple of FTFs. It was actually grouping a little less than 2 inches with 3 shots at 50 yards, something I was Ok with considering everything I have going on...
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1034 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  2:02:52 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would start by replacing your Promag with a real USGI magazine! Sure, they may be 70 years old but, trust me, they work. That may be your only problem. Next, I would measure the recoil spring's free length. If it's 10.25", no more, no less, then it's probably okay, again assuming it's a USGI spring. As a rule, aftermarket parts don't work as good as USGI, particularly springs and magazines. Stay away from "Extra Strong" springs. The carbine was engineered to be lightweight and reliable so it's important to keep it's operating forces near nominal. The best accuracy and reliability, I have found, is achieved using Federal American Eagle FMJ ammo. Some cheaper ammo is copper plated and acts like soft point in the carbine (ie. frequent FTF's). Look for chamber shaped dents in the jacket on the ones that jam.

The Hornady should be okay (good hunting round). I don't have much experience with the Aquila.

Oh, the recoil spring tube is okay. Maybe it came off of an early Rockola or Winchester. It doesn't have to have an "R" stamp. The operating spring guide (rod) is okay too. There were a couple different types. It was meant to be used as a tool to remove pins and compress springs so sometimes they get worn funny.

JackP
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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member



9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  2:40:36 PM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Houston...we have a problem...

I'll be damned. My recoil spring measures is 10 and 1/8th of an inch.

Soooo....could that be the whole issue? I dont know why I didn't measure it before today, I figured it couldn't possibly be that easy...
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1034 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  3:04:17 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a little short. Believe it or not, that will make a difference. That along with the lower inertia flat bolt, Promag magazine, low velocity Aquila ammo, etc. adds up. Start with the magazine first. That'll be the easiest to replace. If that doesn't help, try to find a NOS USGI recoil spring. It will be a little more difficult to find. Check the new one when you get it. Don't try to stretch the old one.

JackP
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1034 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  3:23:51 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, and BTW, you can improve your groups with a Type 2 or 3 barrel band and a beefier pot belly stock, just sayin'... I use a "shooter" stock with my QHMC to reduce the wear and tear on my original Type 1 RMC stock. My "shooter" stock is a birch SA pot belly with an epoxy bedded recoil plate. Accuracy goes from 3.67 MOA to 2.98 MOA average for 5 shot groups when I switch. Best 5 shot group is 1.90 MOA with American Eagle. This carbine has an ME of 2.0. and is my most accurate. Ammo does make a big difference.

JackP
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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member



9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  5:57:51 PM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't seen American Eagle in 30 carbine too many places, for sure not in stores around here (Tulsa).

I will hold out for some though, I have seen some of what is said to be the old Lake City military ball ammo, but it's expensive as all get out and I'm afraid it might be some scam. It's on the AmmoGarand website. Looks good in the pics, but I'm sick of the scams I have seen in regards to the M1. It's amazing how much garbage is out there.
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GOPOKES1973
Starting Member



9 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  6:03:40 PM  Show Profile Send GOPOKES1973 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[URL=http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/OSUJACK/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-01/913AAAB2-0D32-4060-850C-970C63B5978F.jpg.html][/URL]

Here's my first attempt at a pic on here...looks like it will work. I will take some time and upload some close ups tonite
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1034 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  6:10:20 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found mine on gunbot.net but it's not there anymore. Next best for me was American Quality found on CTD. It's also the best priced ($78/250 rnds) but a lot of people don't like to buy from them.

JackP
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2016 :  7:01:07 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome Gopokes
Looks like it might be a good shooter with some TLC. To Bad someone tried to take an updated carbine and turned it into something it is not.
M1 carbine spring sizes ( all springs )These spring sizes might come in handy. FYI PPU RNSP Is very good ammo. My reference gives the

follow dimensions:

Recoil spring: 10.25" (120 coils)
Hammer Spring (Type 1): 2.100" (22 coils)
Hammer Spring (Type 2): 2.500" (26.5 coils)
Ejector Spring: 1.05" (27 coils)
Extractor Plunger Spring: .380" (10 coils)
Operating Slide Stop Friction Spring (Type 1): .250" (7 coils)
Operating Slide Stop Friction Spring (Type 2): .380" (8 coils)
Sear Spring (Type 1): .700" (16 coils)
Sear Spring (Type 2): .655" (15 coils)
Mag Catch/Safety (Type 1): .90" overall (including 2 plungers)
Mag Catch/Safety (Type 2): 1.00" overall (including 2 plungers)
Mag Catch Plunger Spring: 1.00" overall (including single plunger, 18 coils)

Dimensions given were extracted from Craig Riesch's book, "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production".
SM Good Luck
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