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 ok to load spitzer's?
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emsguy
Starting Member


USA
2 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2017 :  3:35:49 PM  Show Profile Send emsguy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am not new to reloading, but I am new to the M1 Carbine. My father brought one ashore with him when he landed on Omaha beach in WW2.

So far, all I have loaded is round nose FMJ's. Can I load a spitzer bullet or must I stay with the roundnose?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered before, but I did a quick search on the forum and couldn't find it.

Thanks.

emsguy

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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
329 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2017 :  5:25:43 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are limitations on what you can load. The OAL cannot exceed what the magazine will accept and feed. Bullet seating cannot be so deep as to diminish case capacity. You may be able to satisfactorily seat a long projectile and successfully get it to feed, but it will result in diminished case-capacity rendering the performance unreliable and possibly dangerous, if one manages to compress enough powder under it. Lighter projectiles...no problem. I load an 86-grain Hornady JSP to a MV of 2400 and it's a great little bullet. You just can't find bullets in the range of 110-grains in weight in anything but a RN, or some form of FMJ and I don't know what performance may be gained if you could.
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emsguy
Starting Member



USA
2 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2017 :  8:12:08 PM  Show Profile Send emsguy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks. that was what I thought.

emsguy
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
329 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  05:51:27 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Certainly understandable that many of us are curious....especially re-loaders. I think some have and do shoot gas-checked cast bullets in heavier weights. Raw alloy/lead bullets are not recommended for a gas operated system. I just don't think one could benefit in performance or improved accuracy with an alternate profile, even if you could get it to load, feed and shoot. You're dealing with a utility piece here and not a sniper or target rifle. The case capacity and OAL requirements limit what one can do.
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daboone
Junior Member



USA
70 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  06:50:42 AM  Show Profile Send daboone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've had excellent results with cast bullets from 93 to 120 grain bullet in the past. :-( Some with and some with out gas checks(GC). Bullet fit and lube were key to keep leading from messing up the barrel and gas port. (I also had some problems learning about fit and lube before I got good results.) Now I use powder coated (PC) bullets which simplifies the use of shooting cast bullets as GCs, perfect fit and and lube issues are eliminated. Several companies now offer PC bullets and these are also less expensive than jacketed.

Did your Dad bring his M1 Carbine home? If he did Please tell us more about your dad's Carbine! Post some pictures. Love to see an WWII vintage M1 Carbine.
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  10:57:43 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Question for the reloaders. If you load smaller projectiles and increase the speed and change the trajectory, does that interfere with the function of the adjustable iron sight? ( POI at 100 200 and 300 yards ) It seems like it would.
Taking it a little further would commercial ammo that varies in FPS ( 1990 / 2000 ) also change the POI ???
SM
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
329 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  2:08:08 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by swampmolly

Question for the reloaders. If you load smaller projectiles and increase the speed and change the trajectory, does that interfere with the function of the adjustable iron sight? ( POI at 100 200 and 300 yards ) It seems like it would.
Taking it a little further would commercial ammo that varies in FPS ( 1990 / 2000 ) also change the POI ???
SM



I can only provide my experience. The subject weapon is an Underwood mix-master, stock front sight, T2 adjustable rear and 60% of the bore left based on my measurements. I have three basic hand-loads that I shoot:

110-grain FMJ over 14-grains of H110 OAL 1.68 MV 1905 fps
110-grain FMJ over 13.5-grains of H110 OAL 1.68 MV 1852 fps
86-grain SPRN over 16.5 grains H110 OAL 1.625 MV 2292 fps

These are safe loads and could be increased a bit to max recommendations. These three AND a commercial Armscorp 110grain FMJ all strike in the exact same place on the target at 25-yards. I can't do it, but my neighbor can place any of these in a milk-jug cap consistently and often in one ragged hole at 25-yards. I can only guess that similar POI's would be the same at longer ranges. It may depend on the gun and I have two commercial carbines that won't do this. I NEVER touched the sights once I had it zeroed, but then...I never shot for zero or accuracy at longer ranges either.

___________________________________________

Note to the OP. I just realized when reading the recent thread above this one, that you can shoot spitzer-style bullets one-at-a-time The proof-loads were strongly loaded 30-06 150-grain projectiles. HOWEVER, you will need to stack a serious charge under it (or it will become serious with the heavy projectile), which could disassemble your carbine in your hands without trying. I guess you could play with it being careful not to stick a squib in the barrel, but I wouldn't.


Edited by - americanboy on 08/22/2017 2:10:49 PM
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  2:42:52 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the reply A boy
I'm pretty sure you can shoot a sweet group at 25 yards, but what happens at 50 and 100 yards or you when you raise the aperture to 200 ? I always have trouble with my Plainfield carbines getting this this feature to work properly. Do the USGI adjustable sights work ? (anyone).
SM
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daboone
Junior Member



USA
70 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  07:23:39 AM  Show Profile Send daboone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am ashamed to admit it but I've only adjusted the Rockola and Inland for 100 yards with center mast hold. It is capable to set for 200 or 300 by moving your rear sight to the appropriate notch with the adjustable sight.
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  07:47:03 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Daboon, That just might be the way to go. :(SM
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Tuna
Moderator



3240 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  2:15:29 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Swampy,

Shooting them all at 25 yards is fine but it's at 100 yards you find out the truth about lighter weight bullets. The 110Gr. should be just about on at 100 yards but say an 85 or 86 gr. bullet will be low on the target with same point of aim. It's traveling quite a bit faster and it's out of the barrel sooner. Now if you slow it down it will be closer to the point of aim as the heavier bullets.
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  3:47:47 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Help me understand, my logic tells me the faster the projectile goes, the sooner it arrives at the target. If this is true then the faster projectile would not drop as much as the slower one. Are you saying that getting out of the barrel slower is effecting the POA because of the recoil ? Sorry my old brain is not computing.
SM

Edited by - swampmolly on 08/23/2017 4:12:04 PM
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3105 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  6:42:01 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Slower=more muzzle rise. The difference will not be seen at 25 yards, but it will at 100. at 300 the slower will be much lower due to longer travel time equalling more gravity effect. cornfusing isn't it?

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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rg1911
Senior Member



USA
541 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2017 :  10:21:39 AM  Show Profile Send rg1911 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the for-what-it's-worth category, I have experimented with quality spitzer bullets (Sierra, Hornady, Lapua). These require that you single-load them; loading to mag length will, indeed, cause pressure problems. I've fired them in a stock mixmaster carbine, in a carbine I assembled from parts with a Criterion barrel, and in a carbine with a barrel I had made that is a 10-twist rather than the standard 20-twist.

At 100 yards, accuracy was not any better than the standard 110-grain round-nose bullets.

Cheers,
Richard
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KennethHamilton
Starting Member



USA
1 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2017 :  03:12:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit KennethHamilton's Homepage Send KennethHamilton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello there! I would like to thank you for the shared information! It's very original and exclusive!
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