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 Irwin-Pedersen
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joe
Advanced Member


Canada
121 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  12:48:16 AM  Show Profile Send joe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Gentlemen, first post. Very pleased to see this site!! Looks great!
As a longtime Mauser collector, I started about a year ago getting into US wartime era firearms. My Dad carried a .45 Remington Rand for the latter part of the war, traded for cigarettes, got my interest going.
I have posted this on another forum, but I thought I would post here as well, a dedicated M1 carbine site, and hope I can get as much information and guidance as possible.
This was my third carbine, I still have this one as well as a nice Inland, but sold my Underwood years ago.
Anyway, if I could get some thoughts on this Irwin Pedersen M1 carbine. I just bought it, knowing the paratrooper folding stock was a repro (and that these were only on Inland carbines)....but I was hoping the rest would be wartime configuration, and then try to find a stock for it. I see the additional serial numbers on the triggerguard and receiver, and believe they are postwar markings, correct? Any idea from whom? Do they look German?
Is this just a mixmaster with limited collector value? How much do the postwar serial markings detract from the price? My goal is to collect only complete wartime examples ( like everyone else). I have a couple reference books on the way, but can't wait. Thanks for any input
Joe























Edited by - joe on 07/12/2007 12:52:09 AM

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USA
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nsesco
Greenhorn Member



37 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  10:02:26 AM  Show Profile Send nsesco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First of all welcome to the forum! What you have there seems to be an Irwin Pedersen that became an S'G' Saginaw Grand Rapids due to the contract being taken over. Other than a few parts it looks correct. Let me say that the additional serial number markings appear possibly to be A Bavarian Police import. These are a collectable version of the carbine due to the fact that most were not updated to the latest military configuration such as adjustable sights,flip safety and bayonet lug. Some Bavarian carbines were blued and I have seen some with electropenciled serial # on the bolt but I don't believe they were consistent in the markings. The stock of course is a reproduction and if I were looking to make it mostly correct I would look for an Unmarked
type 2 or type 2 RSG. The type 2 IR-IP stock would probably cost as much as what you paid for the carbine so I would look at the other two.
The hammer that I can see is an Inland which depending on serial# an S'G' after serial #1,767,223 before that would be IP. As I can't see the markings inside the slide and bolt or the sear/trigger in the housing this is at least a little help for you.
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joe
Advanced Member



Canada
121 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  3:42:39 PM  Show Profile Send joe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you very much Sir for the help, I am grateful for this! I will take her apart more thoroughly and get mor epics of what I have. I do not think I will attempt the bolt, however. I would probably never get it back together properly.
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WarBaby
Administrator



USA
1885 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  7:30:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit WarBaby's Homepage Send WarBaby a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Joe - welcome to the forum! It appears you have a mostly correct IP carbine, something you should be quite proud of. With the reproduction M1A1 stocks selling for $180 or so, you could sell it and pick up a nice USGI Walnut stock for her - and with enough looking, possibly even the correct one. Thanks for posting, especially the photos. We thrive on photos here at M1 Carbine Forum...
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joe
Advanced Member



Canada
121 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  7:38:29 PM  Show Profile Send joe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Sir, I am grateful for the expertise. I think I will take your advice, and sell the folder, and find something better for the IP. I will post pics of my Inland soon too. Take care and thanks so much,
Joe
P.S.....is it true that Ip carbines were NEVER issued to US forces, and never saw action?
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nsesco
Greenhorn Member



37 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  8:21:42 PM  Show Profile Send nsesco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The US Military did not accept the original assembled 3542 carbines in Irwin Pedersen's hands. The contract was defaulted and there were about 50,000 IP marked receivers that were assembled under the S'G' contract I imagine that all of the 53,542 IP carbines were accepted by the US military after that. If an IP has some S'G' marked parts they are technically considered Saginaw Gear Grand Rapids carbines due to being assembled there. Although a premium is generally due to the low % of IP receivers.
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nsesco
Greenhorn Member



37 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  8:25:35 PM  Show Profile Send nsesco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also believe that your carbine come from Germany and was used by the
Württemberg-Baden Landespolizei(Border Patrol).
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m1mike
Veteran Member



USA
2032 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  9:25:04 PM  Show Profile Send m1mike a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent photos and Carbine........How much did you pay for it ???

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joe
Advanced Member



Canada
121 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  10:22:01 PM  Show Profile Send joe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Mike, value is alot less in Canada, just not the interest or the respect the M1 carbine deserves. Take care.
Joe
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MrJitters
Veteran Member



USA
1933 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2007 :  07:00:57 AM  Show Profile Send MrJitters a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very nice Joe. Welcome to the forum

MrJ

_______________________

Then conquer we must, for our cause is just, and this be our motto --"In God is our trust."

GCA & NRA Member
Type 03FFL C&R
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Hollywood
Advanced Member



193 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2007 :  5:55:58 PM  Show Profile Send Hollywood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice score! Welcome to the forum!
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Sleeplessnashadow
Starting Member



USA
19 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  06:21:52 AM  Show Profile Send Sleeplessnashadow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Joe

Your carbines was used by the Landespolizei in the American Occupation Zone district of Wurttemberg-Baden. The 4 digits behind the WB-LP are their inventory number for the carbine. I own one from this same agency. I just posted a description about this occupation zone and a carbine from Stuttgart, on the CSP forum.

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Also scroll down the page at:

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I'm working on organizing all the info I have on the M1 carbines in Germany post WWII. The pages for Germany are currently being worked on. Been working on Berlin all afternoon and evening.

Are there any other non-GI markings on the carbine?

Any import mark on the bottom of the barrel right behind the front sight?

Jim
BavarianM1Carbines.com

Edited by - Sleeplessnashadow on 07/29/2007 06:30:54 AM
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joe
Advanced Member



Canada
121 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  10:24:44 PM  Show Profile Send joe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Jim, thank you so much for this information, and your exhausting research we all benefit from. I looked throughout the entire carbine, including underneath the front sight, and see no other markings or import marks. Just on the left side of the receiver, trigger guard, and on top of the receiver behind the Irwin Pedersen serial number. It is a real shame this does not have the correct stock (yet!), but can anyone give an honest assessment of value. I have had a few people makimng offers. Reluctant to sell, of course, but nice to know where I am standing. Thanks again all, thanks Jim, please email me if I can offer any assistance.
Joe
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joe
Advanced Member



Canada
121 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  10:25:29 PM  Show Profile Send joe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
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