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 What lube do you use for your War Baby
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Satanta
Advanced Member


USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  5:25:03 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Went to the range today with my Inland 44.
Halfway through my play time, it failed to eject. Heard and felt it right off. Manual ejection worked, but know the rule. STOP!
The next round did not quite go full battery as per observation.
Took it home and was very surprised at all the build up and crud under the extractor.
It has only been maybe 250 rounds since the last complete clean and inspection. Barrel gets cleaned after every trip. Couple passes with Hoppe's 9. No need to point that out, but I did.
Point is: This was all very dry with gum and crud. Just nasty and even after a soak in solvent, toothbrush, blown dry, you still had to get the old man glasses out and remove leftovers with a small pick.
I never over due it. But as I hear spoken. If it moves, oil it.
If is slides, lube it.
I have been using Tetra. I obviously will be looking for other suggestions.
Everything was dry and sticky throughout.
I did before posting this. Clean, reassemble, and test. All is fine once again. I assembled with Remington oil this time, no lube.
I forget what I was using before Tetra, but had no problems before.
It has an Inland extractor and Inland round bolt. Ejector and extractor pin plus springs are one year new and unknown.
Came from Fulton Armory.
Been shooting this combo for well over a year. But feel this Tetra is not what I should be using.
Thanks....

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1059 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  6:26:45 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think grease is great for lubricating metal things that don't generate any contamination other than perhaps a little metal dust from wear. You carbine will add to that grease, burned and unburned powder residues in an environment of high temperatures. Who knows how that affects lubrication? Unless otherwise specifically recommended by the gun manufacturer I find the best lubrication is a good gun oil. I use Hoppe's #9 gun oil. It's a good general purpose lubricant that is designed for the higher temperatures you might encounter. Hoppe's does make a gun "grease" but it is only intended to be used to protect your gun during a "long" storage period and is to be removed before firing. They don't make anything like Tetra. Maybe there's a good reason.

JackP
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  7:41:53 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Jack as always. Last time I purchased, it was Tetra this and that. Not saying anything bad, but I will not use it again. I used to tear down and clean after every trip. But once again, read and learn.
Some say it's just unneeded per the wear and tear on all old and precious parts. Not so much the metal, but I think the point was band and wood. Recoil plate fit etc.. Softer and yet more brittle might be the word I'm looking for.
I have heard great things with the Hoppes's 9 brand. I just bought the barrel clean and very impressed.
Actually used it while cleaning with a toothbrush in the receiver channels, etc.
For now. I will see how the Remington oil holds out.
To all newbies mostly, and anyone else.
Clean and inspect. Second: If it don't sound right or feel right, STOP!
I was almost ready after the manual ejection to try one more. Then observed that the bolt was not completely locked in full battery. Dropped the mag, the shell ejected just fine.
Had I not observed that, I might of had a real problem in my face.


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bonnie
Advanced Member



USA
171 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  7:47:22 PM  Show Profile Send bonnie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Overall I think most any good oil/grease, properly applied, will do the job. Gun owners do like to debate the best firearms lubricants and there never is a winner.
I use SuperLube synthetic grease and oil on my firearms. It works for me, plus I have a lot of it!
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
302 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  9:14:51 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Satanta


To all newbies mostly, and anyone else.
Clean and inspect. Second: If it don't sound right or feel right, STOP!
I was almost ready after the manual ejection to try one more. Then observed that the bolt was not completely locked in full battery. Dropped the mag, the shell ejected just fine.
Had I not observed that, I might of had a real problem in my face.



I was a little concerned with your report that your bolt was not locked in battery. You were wise to STOP.

I don't know that built up crud in and on the bolt could cause that. I would watch that very carefully, for safety's sake.

After shooting, I always clean the barrel, receiver, and bolt. I use a toothbrush and Hoppe's No 9 on those areas. I can't help it a clean gun makes for a happy me.

Then I finish with gun oil for everything except: I put a little grease on the track the slide runs back and forth on, and also on the inside channels in the receiver where the bolt runs back and forth. Then I use a q-tip to smear it around a little.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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boomer656
Greenhorn Member



USA
42 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2018 :  07:11:10 AM  Show Profile Send boomer656 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been using Hoppe's Elite. Like BEYU, I also apply a little grease on the tracks for the slide and the bolt. For that I've been using Slide Glide. I use one of those small glue brushes wood workers use to apply the grease.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2018 :  7:57:51 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone. Application for me is the same as your doing. I was just really disappointed in Tetra lube.
It just turned gummy and all with your normal powder residue, etc. Extreme build up.
Might as well had old cosmoline in it.
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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
77 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2018 :  2:43:53 PM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LSA. Years ago I bought a quart can of it at some gun show cheap. Have enough to last 100 years. Easy to slaver up everything and let it dry. Does not seem to attract dirt or stuff. I know it probably will not work in very cold weather but so far I have no desire to be outside in such.

Probably not the best for a USGI Carbine but it is what I have so I use it. When dry the action is so smooth.

Edited Extra because I am old and forgot! :)

LSA means lubricant,small arms. Or so I think. It is in a quart can like what paint thinner or acetone comes in. I brush it on the moving contact areas and let it dry. Teflon and hydraulic oil or so I was told.

More Edited Extra: LSA. You must shake the heck out of it to mix the stuff inside the can. Shake shake shake. That is all. :)

Edited by - HB of CJ on 06/18/2018 8:19:28 PM
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2018 :  3:40:39 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I assume HB when you said you bought a quart can of it, you meant Tetra? I could very easily be pointing the finger in the wrong direction. I will know more the next few times out.
This was a small tube of Tetra Lube, with a big NEW in a highlighted area. As if it were their new production line. You have to kneed the tube well to form the lube. Otherwise, all you get is liquid. No big deal there.
It just seemed like a magnet to premature built up. Maybe it is not compatible with the Remington oil.
No fault of either in that case. Once again, if it slides lube it, if it moves, oil it.
They are going to swap spit sooner or later when things heat up.
Trial and era, but think from now on that I will use the same brand for both applications.


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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2018 :  4:04:37 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry BEYU. I missed the part on whether or not the crud could cause the lack of full battery. I also had my doubts until I took it down. Figured I might have a cracked bolt, damaged extractor or something else.
All was good except the build-up under the extractor, and of course everything being dry and sticky. Even the ejector pin and spring was gummy dry. At 200 or so rounds, I was not expecting that.
Had to be dug out with a pick.
I will of course keep a close eye on things. But I'm going to assume the extractor was not closing down proper on the case lip? Hence not allowing full battery? It was only by little, but it was not full.
As said, after inspection and cleaning, as is proper and well.
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3118 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2018 :  4:23:41 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Axle grease and gun oil in the summer and just gun oil in the winter months. Never had a problem unless the temps drop below 10.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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zippy
Starting Member



USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2018 :  4:14:09 PM  Show Profile Send zippy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, it could have fired out of battery ? Is this a design problem with M1 Carbines ? I do not own one, I'm just curious, and have heard stories over the years of such things. TY
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2018 :  6:32:52 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They can from what I hear and understand. Several improvements were made to help prevent that.
Type 2 modified firing pin and then the Type 3. I also think the Type 3 hammer was also designed to help in that problem. Mine has both, and it did not fire out of battery. I was happy to find that out with the problems I was having.
I do need to update everyone on my final find and fix. After my tear down, inspection and cleaning. All that I could point a finger too was the crud under the extractor. I even chambered a shelf bought Magtech round and it went in full battery. Problem solved I was sure.
Next time I went to the range I had some PPU shelf ammo this time and jacked the first shell in.
My bad for not looking, but click it went. Lucky me, but did learn the safety features worked.
STOP! once again, and back home. Once again, checking barrel and chamber with the light. Used a chamber brush, the whole process. It would take the Magtech, but not the PPU. Ogive taper is slightly different. These are both FMJ, yet I have never had a problem before.
I then grabbed one of my lead coated reloads that are seated deeper because of the ogive also.
Same problem, but the lead was all marked up. Grabbed another and palmed the charging handle into full battery. Had the palm strike it back also to eject the round.
BEHOLD! out came a small ring of brass with it. It acted like a bolt extractor with the soft lead. Locked onto it, and pulled it out.
Going to try and send pics.

Now my question to all re-loaders. WHY did this happen?
I was trying some hotter loads, but still under max. I was pushing 1,854 fps with the hottest.
I trim my cases to 1.285 Maybe I slipped up and missed one, it's possible. I check the length after every 5. I don't remember if I tried applying a little crimp or not. I think I might have, but not sure. My bad for not adding that to my notes during the build.
For now, unless I hear different back. I think I will stick with no crimp needed.
That little jewel of a problem could not be seen or budged with a bore brush. Had it not been for my soft lead bullets. I don't know how long I would of been fighting this. Plus when I kicked it out and it fell to the ground. That ring could of fallen off never to be noticed.
Just glad it stuck tight and was there for me to discover.
It had to have been so neatly and tightly tucked in there between the end of the chamber and the start of the rifling I'm guessing? I did use one of my resized empty cases for test also when that piece was still in there. Slick as a whistle.
So that tell me it was just past the chamber ridge?
I'm new at reloading, but have 600 rounds under my belt. Never a problem like this one.
I'm pretty sure I might have been playing with a crimp. Just wish I had taken notes on that along with everything else I write down.
Would love to hear all input. Thanks...

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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
77 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2018 :  8:33:34 PM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Boy, that is a difficult question to answer. Can you gage your barrel? Throat. Crown. Bore erosion? This is getting harder but could you cast your chamber? Fun to do.

The first thing I would do is determine the exact head space. Trimming your brass to 1.285 sounds fine. The hammer and firing pin sound OK. Can you determine your bolt type?

The Carbine likes military spec ammo. This means a full load to the hand loader. Years ago we used 15.0 grains of H110. That was then. This is now. Proper late extractor?

This one has me stumped. What would cause the brass ring. We are very careful with the internal guts parts mix. M2, Everything must be near perfect for 100% running.

My old spring tube Rock Ola shaved lead at the gas port. The easy fix was to run that .070 drill bit through the port. The late piston nut also is a good idea. All fun.

All Oregon State Laws, US Code Laws, NFA Laws And BATFE Rules Apply.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2018 :  10:00:16 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the input. Going to wait for more of course. I've had this Inland for over a year and shoot it all the time. Inland round bolt, head space is excellent. Don't remember the #'s anymore, but I would say go gauge plus .001 or 2.
Extractor is late Inland also.
The gauging of everything seems unneeded. If it were new to me from a recent purchase. I would be all over that and understand your suggestions.
It could only be a fluke, one of a time freak thing. But I'm just looking for a possible reason.
It was a reload, #2 batch. Hornady FMJ bullet. I always keep all brass sorted per how many times. Have not got there, but planned to stop at 4. Some say they get 5 and 6 reloads out of their brass.
Other than the step up for a hotter load, which was Acc 9 at 12.8 nothing changed except for the fact I (think) I put a light crimp on it also. Think? and the hotter load. Never do two things at the same time.
The load was still under max, and pushed 1854 fps. I actually think the unneeded crimp is the cause. But still wanting to hear from all.
That round sliver was so neatly tucked just behind the chamber case stop. Had I not crimped, I think it would of been fine.
Once again, I'm just grabbing at the sky for input. Much appreciate yours HB, but don't think I'm there yet.
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Tuna
Moderator



3262 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2018 :  10:03:54 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By roll crimping you cannot tell if your case it too long. When fired the brass case let go at the mouth leave the ring in the chamber. Measure each and every case after you size them. When loading do not use a roll crimp of any kind. Just the taper crimp built into the dies. It's all you need.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2018 :  1:46:44 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Tuna, that makes sense but I was only using the taper crimp built in the die. Just played a little with the adjustment. Screwed it in just a little more. Going to move it back to the setting that came with the manual, three turns out after the die touches the shell holder.
Plus, I shall start measuring each case after sizing.
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
346 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2018 :  3:39:44 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With standard dies, it is very easy to over-crimp. I like to use a Factory Crimp Die (Lee) on all my auto-pistol calibers. I think it would be very difficult, or maybe even impossible short of breaking something to over-crimp with a FCD. Hard to visualize I know, but if you had a FCD in your hands, you could see what I mean. I think an investment in a 7.62 x 33 crimp die is worth it.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2018 :  4:53:53 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Let me start with this question, is a crimp even needed with the carbine round?
I remember when I first started reloading, that was always a hit and miss. 50% would say not needed. The others would say they liked to use a light taper crimp.
I had never crimped any of my other reloads before, say the first 550 and like I said, I'm not even sure the rounds fired that day were crimped. My bad for not noting that on my pad. But it does make sense that is likely what happened. Although the crimp was light enough that I wasn't even sure I had one. I just knew the adjustment had been made. 1/4 turn. ( once again I think I did )
I also must admit that my first 500 reloads were with the coated bayou lead bullets that are .309 in size. So yes, no crimp was needed for sure.
That sliver of brass was from my Hornady FMJ reloads. Could such a problem happen from not enough crimp? Recoil causing the mag loaded bullets to move forward? Just tossing blue sky idea's out there.
I'm sure I will invest in the Lee FCD. I know what you mean about easy enough to over crimp.
Before I got separate bushings for all my dies and was having to set and adjust every time.
I made the wrong setting and crimped one big time. I could of course feel it when I pulled, and the visual looked more like a roll crimp. It was ugly.
Thanks again to everyone.


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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
77 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2018 :  9:11:19 PM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fifty years ago we did NOT use a taper crimp. We were using .309 or .310 diameter cast lead bullets. Our hand loads had a visible very slight bulge on the case outside of the bullet.

There is a quick and easy test to see if you need to taper crimp the .30 Carbine cartridge. Load some up without a taper crimp at all. Be sure your trimmed brass is not too long. Important.

Load some rounds in a mag. SAFELY hand rack the loaded hand loads through the Carbine. Safety first. Examine the ejected rounds. Check for bullet set back. If no set back then you are OK.

Be sure your .309 or .310 diameter coated bullet hand loads fit into the chamber. Ours did. Your chamber may differ. Think safety. Go slow. We want to also use coated lead bullets.
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
346 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2018 :  11:09:56 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Satanta

Let me start with this question, is a crimp even needed with the carbine round?


Only enough to remove the bell left over from expansion to seat the bullet. With the standard die sets, the crimp shoulder is very thin and only the extreme end of the case-mouth gets compressed. All the brass has to be the same length if you adjust your dies once and run an entire batch. You can be guaranteed a crimping variance if you set the die once and run a batch of brass of inconsistent lengths.

The LEE FCD utilizes "split fingers" that are compressed against the case. There is practically no way to apply enough force to over-crimp a round with this die.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2018 :  6:30:11 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All good info and advice from the last two posts. Think I will go with the FCD from Lee. It's an extra step, but maybe the smart one also.
As Tuna said, and others. Case lengths need to all be the same. I need to start measuring every one instead of every 5 or 6 after sizing. Phones ring, bladders get full, etc. Easy enough to miss a step without even trying. Stairs do that to me also. hee-ha!
Thanks everyone, love the forum, the learn and input is priceless!
One question back to you americanboy. I can see all this working together for a jacketed bullet.
But with a lead one at .309 and I hear some use .310. That tight fit and bulge will always be there. I've only used .309 with no crimp. No problems with that either.
I'm guessing the die is not to be used with lead coated oversize rounds?
That takes away the F on the factory crimp die.
My little problem ring of brass showed up when I used up my lead, and reloaded with FMJ.
Seems like the bottom answer overall is the way I did things.
I loaded up only 6 of two different powders for fps readings. So it was indeed a virgin run with a jacket case. I could of missed on the crimp, the length, etc, or a combo.
It only happened the one time. I shot the first 4 in my Inland, #5 went to the ring. The remaining 7 I shot in my QHMC. It wasn't till a few days later after I had tried again with shelf ammo, that I realized that the problem was still there with the Inland.
The larger ogive lead head bullet with forced palm strike to go into full battery, grabbed that little bugger and pulled it out.
I may never know the exact cause, but I'm going to change up my process for sure.

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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
346 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  07:53:47 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been out-of-the-loop on anything gun or reloading for some time now. Had some serious lengthy surgeries and hospital stays. They tell me I was knocking on deaths door, but I don't remember all that....thank goodness I was asleep. I think episodes like this burns-off a few more of those precious brain cells.

I'm remembering with oversized lead projectiles, it's common to have the bulge. The bullet is oversized for a reason and it's not necessary or practical to try and crush it down to .308. The bulge won't hurt a thing....as long as the case is in spec. and/or will chamber. The FCD can be used with lead or coated projectiles. You simply set it up to lightly crimp and remove any bell remaining in the mouth.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  12:58:52 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well glad your back and hope everything is going to be alright. I had missed and noticed you absence over that period of time. I even ask a fellow forum member if he had heard anything.
None of us are getting any younger that's for sure. Rest up and get well.
I ordered the crimp die, $16.95 with free shipping. Not a bank breaker by far and I might really like it. So for the price, why not try it.
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
346 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  3:43:06 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the kind words. I have to go back under the knife when I get healed-up from these last two surgeries. I lost 30-pounds lying around in the hospital, but I'd not recommend that as a weight loss program.

I don't think you will go wrong with the 30-caliber FCD. I have other factory crimp dies for 9MM and 45ACP and they are not built like the carbine die. Maybe because the carbine case is tapered. I can tell you that it's just not possible to over-crimp a round with that die. It will also full-length size the round as well. Regardless of what it looks like, if it is ran thru the FCD, it should chamber.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
176 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  5:11:15 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can only wish you well with the upcoming surgeries. Long story short, I did a back fusion. 36 hours later my bad gut problem got mad and they removed 6" of it. I was cut on both sides and 18 days later got to go home. It's no fun.
The Golden Years, right???.. heha!
Question: You said it will full length size the round?
I just loaded 50 with every adjustment in spec and all the same length. Case and OAL.
Just waiting for the FCD.
Max OAL is 1.680 I set all mine at 1.670
Are you saying the OAL will be 1.680 after the crimp? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying? I'm left handed and Kansas born if that helps, haha..
The full length mention is what's throwing me off. Maybe full length the case taper?

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