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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2018 :  6:42:35 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks jimb16. I do have the Lyman 50th anniversary manual ordered. Seems to be the last on the list to arrive.
Hope it will have the info included that you mention.
I just need to pull my boots up and get with it. Did it in my early 20's learning to become a mechanic.
Fared really well and became good at it because I had good teachers. They always would steer me in the right direction without all the answers. The answer is there, you just have to look for it.
My best boss always said after the fact that I told him. I've never set up a ring and pinion rear end before.
The books are over there, and you won't ever have to say again that you don't know how.
Working commission only, I was starving. But learned.
I'm not starving anymore. Just anxious I guess. Need to slow the pace and get back to using the brain again.
Thanks again.
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daboone
Junior Member



USA
76 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2018 :  06:41:28 AM  Show Profile Send daboone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Satanta

Need to slow the pace and get back to using the brain again.
Thanks again.



LOL

Brains of older people are slow because they know so much.

People do not decline mentally with age, it just takes them longer to recall facts because they have more information in their brains.

Scientists believe this also makes you hard of hearing as it puts pressure on your inner ear.
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
307 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2018 :  12:17:36 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That sounds good to me. Do I have your permission to use these excuses in my own life?

I just have to keep them all straight in my mind like, I'm not bald, I just have more face to wash. I'm not really bald, I'm just too tall for my hair.

And my favorite "Grass does not grow on a busy street, nor does hair upon a thoughtful head."

I got that one years ago from my mother when I was losing my hair at about 30 years old.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2018 :  2:22:56 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL, love it all. The older the violin, the sweeter the music. Something to be said about age and knowledge.
I go round after round at times with my 39 year old son. 20 years military and retired from that, and starting his next 20 plus as a civilian. Thinks I should be put to pasture at times, but always looks to elders and even pops when the old and proven ways need to be brought into play. Funny... Not sure what I'm saying except.
Us old coot's still have grit and smarts. I received a tiny taste of that here with the good advice.
Reloading got me jazzed up. I ask way to many questions without doing enough of my own study. I have tried hard not too.
But got slack in the excitement.
Just saying thanks to all for help and the push to get back in and study more.
We are never to old too learn more.
Eye's are tired, but the info is there if you just search it through.
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
363 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2018 :  4:59:18 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it's going to be a stretch to find a powder you can use for the carbine AND something like a 380. Carbine powders can generally be used in magnum loads, such as the 357 and 44. I have and do shoot the coated lead bullets in other calibers, but never in a carbine. I don't know if the coating negates the concern or not, but gas-checks are usually recommended when driving lead projectiles at high pressures. I've not attempted to research it.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2018 :  6:31:43 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You are right americanboy. Powders are not the same, and my bad for mistaken what jimb16 was saying.
Once again it's a case of reading what you want to see and not reading what is actually there. He said he also loaded .380
I missed the powder Bullseye 95 part. My Bad. Once again, check twice, and twice again.
I'm not worried much about the .380 right now. Way later. I actually should of not brought it into the mix.
I've decided on the IMR 4227 powder. Start at minimum and go from there.
The Bayou coated bullets? I had thought you have used them per carbine. Many posts have been made, so it came from someone else. I hear happy results with the gas piston and lead build up. Mostly none if at all per problems.
I just need to get in there and do safe loads and learn.
I picked a start point and need to follow through right now. Build a few and compare to my SG bought PPU.

On the bright side of New Years Day. A good friend of mine and his grandson went scouting in the desert.
Took our stuff of course. My carbine, and his scoped mini-14. Water.. TP etc. Broke down 5 miles in.
Cell phone worked, so we only had a backing of a sandstone wall 300 plus yards away as we waited for rescue.
Picked a small speck which was probably at least a 1 foot hole in the sandstone. Slid my adjustable sight all the way back and made the hole bigger is all I'm gonna say. PPU shelf ammo.
It took my friend only 5 rounds to dial in his scope.
It was fun, the rescue party arrived. My buddy was very impressed with my peep sight shooting. Ha-ha, so was I.
Just a good day to start the new year. Break down and toss (pick up) some brass while waiting for rescue.
Best part was that the 15 year old had never shot a M1, beside the fact, never heard of such a thing.
Had I not ran out of shells, I would of had to fight him to stop shooting. He loved it.



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daboone
Junior Member



USA
76 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2018 :  05:49:44 AM  Show Profile Send daboone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've shot over 500 (so far) of Bayou .30 CARBINE 115 GR. RN with out any problems using 2400 and CCI 400 SRP. I don't load max load on my war babys as I didn't see any serious improvement when I did the load work ups. Why push the limits and add ware and tare? Besides the prices of their parts have gone skyrocketing and it doesn't improve the beer can MOA at least for me. ;-}
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3139 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2018 :  10:05:36 AM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I use 130 gr. plain base cast bullets in my carbines. I used to size and lube them. Now I just PC them. They work fine. If you aren't pushing them over 1400 fps, you don't need gas checked bullets. I will add though that if the bullet is a gas check design, it will be more accurate if you do have a check on it. I've been casting and reloading for over 45 years. I've got plenty of experience. But there is one thing I will add....I've still got a lot to learn!

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2018 :  1:26:11 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I finally got my Lyman 50th Anniversary manual yesterday. Ha! First thing ordered and the last thing to arrive. I've been giving it a good read, and I'm sure my next several questions are in there. But I still like to get input from my go-too group.
First while it's in my mind. Jimb16 - What does PC mean? One of my questions will be the final stage of using the bullet seat and feed die, plus the crimp process.
Let me begin with the specs. I get the case length after resizing. Mine are coming out at 1.282
I was hoping to get more like 1.285 but it looks like the cutting die I received is going to give me that #.
I have it set for the longest setting and it's just the nature of the beast for the die I got. I'm good with that # overall. Note: Using two caliper's and both read the same with my case measurements.
My head space on both carbine's is spot on minimal plus .001 so at 1.282 I should be fine? I was just wanting the chance to get more life out of my brass.
My question's are: The specs for case diameter's I assume are maximum? My base measures at .353
The neck is my concern. It measures at .257
Now this # is after resizing only. I assume I should not worry about that # till after the bullet has been seated? The max spec is .336 and my shelf PPU measures at .332
Ha - hope I'm making sense here.
Last question. I'm still reading and have no primers, powder, or bullets yet. Baby steps.
The seating and crimp. It's sounds like nobody uses the factory crimp die. I'm not going to go there if not needed. Sounds like my bullet seating die will take care of all that with a final adjustment or two?
Now Tuna mentioned somewhere on the process of this procedure. I pretty much savvy it, except the wording of getting the desired crimp.
The million dollar question. How do you know the desired crimp per the virgin learning process?
Last - last question for now. Using the coated Bayou bullets. Is there a need to lube them first before seating? Thanks again to all involved.
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
307 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2018 :  2:48:45 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll display my own ignorance on the crimping question I did not think crimping was needed for the carbine, because it is a semi auto.

I reload .38 special, and I use the factory crimping die because crimps are essential in revolvers.

I have reloaded maybe 300 plus rounds so far for my carbine and fired 100 of them without incident, and no crimps.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2018 :  4:20:27 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks BEYU for your input. That is why I raised the question plus others. Reading the Lyman bible you get different answers or solutions. As they safely say. Start small and work forward. That means and covers all. I see no need to ever go to the max on loads. But the crimp confuses me.
I found one place that said a factory crimp was suggested for semi-auto. Yet we all know that covers a lot of ground. 30 carbine with the taper case are a different animal.
I'm learning this reloading and just kinda want to arrive safely without wasting a lot of brass via carbine only right now. I really think the replies will come in as, not needed if done correctly.
I guess my concern is over crimp. I hear that can be just as deadly or troublesome as an over charge.
Causing excessive pressure build up if over crimped.
I have yet to go there of course. That's why I'm asking so many questions. The Lyman manual is a must I agree.
But till I find 100% on 30 carbine. I have to take the overall in mind.
Ha! I know what's next. The link for the 30 carbine manual only. Bring it on! I'm in.
Do my measurements make sense per questions? Thanks!


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wheelgunfan
Starting Member



11 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2018 :  05:22:45 AM  Show Profile Send wheelgunfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have not yet loaded the .30 carbine but if I were I would only use a taper crimp and just enough to remove the bell at the case mouth and bring the cartridge back to spec which if I remember correctly should be .336 at the case mouth. Please consult your manual on this dimension as this is only as accurate as my memory which can be somewhat off at times.
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
363 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2018 :  06:28:05 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Case-tension holds the bullet, so crimping may not be necessary if it works for you. Maybe some of us do it as a habit, but I notice that the case mouth is not always completely pressed against the bullet. I just bump mine in the FCD. It may also vary among bullet seating dies as to how the round comes out of the die. I do it for insurance purposes. The SAAMI chamber spec. is .3386 at the ledge and the case-mouth spec. is .336. Most commercial stuff seems to run closer to .3325-.333.
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3139 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2018 :  6:26:57 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Normally, your seating die does the taper crimp when properly adjusted. You will be able to use your calipers to determine if you have enough. Close the calipers on the case about .15 inches down from the case moth then slide the calipers up to the case mouth. If they slide off onto the bullet, you have enough crimp. If they stick/hang up, you need to set the seating die down about another 1/4 turn so you get a smooth taper crimp. BTW PC is powder coated which is a poly paint used instead of bullet lube. Properly applied, it works like lube and prevents barrel leading.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2018 :  5:02:27 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks again to all, and back again. Got my Lyman tumbler, 50 - 50 mix batch with corn and walnut media.
Came out great and installed Winchester SR primers with no problems. Very happy so far.
I have moved on to the powder study and learning curve.
I'm using IMR 4227 powder. The bullets will be 115 lead Bayou coated.
My goal was to start with 12.5 grains.
My equipment is Lee everything. Scales, perfect powder measure, etc. I ran two hoppers of powder through as recommended.
Did my homework I think, and came up with a setting of .096 on the feed.
VMD for IMR 4227 is .0769 x 12.5 = .096
Pretty sure I got the weight scale calibrated correctly. Checked it several times over. Even did the scoop check for grins with the 1.0cc dipper. Very close to 12.5 grains.
This is my main question: I had to adjust my feed to 1.06 to get the 12.5 grain measurement. Does this sound okay or not? Calculated it should of been a .096 setting. Am I going about this correctly?
I did a check with my ready to go casings and all looks good. It will not be a compressed charge at all.
Should be a nice fit.
I'm getting to the good stuff now, and just trying to make sure I'm thinking this proper.



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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3139 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2018 :  7:37:45 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never worry about what the scale setting says. I look at what the scale weight is. Remember, different batches of powder will vary in volume for a particular weight and powder performance is based on weight of powder, not volume. So always go with the proper weight.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2018 :  9:21:43 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I understand. I ordered a Hornaday digital weight scale to double and triple check things.
Right now I have other problems. I went through the steps per manual. Loaded 3 dummy rounds for test.
I could see right off that it looked like the swell on the casing was bigger than should be with the crimp.
Per measure it's only .002 larger than shelf PPU.
Chambered the dummy round and let the bolt slide at half force. It would not close. Full slide force, it closes and ejects. Case length is 1.280 and without the crimped bullet, everything works fine.
The coated bullets measure .309
Somewhere I am doing something wrong.
I think myself that the crimp is to much? I just barely used the expander die. Just enough to keep the bullet in place (barely) before I seated the bullet. I did forget the rotate process.
I'm convinced my problem lies in the expanded case due to seating the bullet. The AOL is 1.670
To me with case cutting at 1.280 I can't think of any other place to look right now.
The outer case diameter after seating is .332? PPU shelf is .330
Maybe I'm squishing things and need to use the case expander deeper?
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daboone
Junior Member



USA
76 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  06:55:05 AM  Show Profile Send daboone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think you're describing the coke bottle or hour glass effect after seating the bullet. This is not uncommon. Your sizer die is sizing the cases below bullet diameter. When you seat the bullet, the bullet expands the case back out. Variation between types of brass because case walls on some brass are thicker than others.
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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
363 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  07:14:24 AM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by daboone

I think you're describing the coke bottle or hour glass effect after seating the bullet. This is not uncommon. Your sizer die is sizing the cases below bullet diameter. When you seat the bullet, the bullet expands the case back out. Variation between types of brass because case walls on some brass are thicker than others.



Agreed. As long as the dimensions are within spec. you should be good. Riding the slide most always results in chambering problems that don't exist in real time.

Edited by - americanboy on 01/09/2018 07:15:35 AM
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  10:43:03 AM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks daboone and americanboy. New day and going to try a few other things first. Maybe just over concerned, but should be I guess with my first attempts. The bolt will close easily riding the slide with a new PPU.
I think I might try seating the bullet a little deeper.
This is a quote from another site: bigbird
04-01-2016, 11:21 PM
I don't remember exactly which coated lead 110 grain projectiles I used for some M1 Carbine reloads, but I didn't need to crimp. My loads were 12.2 grains of H110 with vel. of adout 1600 fps.
But due to shape of projectile OAL was 1.620" to allow bolt to properly close when rounds were chambered.

Now my Lee chart says with 115 grain lead bullet. The minimal OAL is 1.635 Yet for 110 and 130 grain lead bullets the minimal OAL is 1.680 Go figure?
Per from quote above, I just wonder if the bullet seating is the problem. What do you guys use for your OAL when using 115 grain coated lead? Right now I'm at 1.672
Also no one has really said a yea or nay on my starting load. IMR 4227 at 12.5 grains? Or is that to much?
I decided before I send this, I would seat the bullet some more. OAL is now at 1.645 Same deal, just not as noticeable. Could be because I've ran it threw 10 times or so?
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daboone
Junior Member



USA
76 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  2:34:14 PM  Show Profile Send daboone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For the M1 Carbine I use the magazine. I want the complete cartridge to just fit in it, not to long not to short. Of course the powder/bullet combo must be appropriate and the primer properly seated.

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americanboy
Advanced Member



USA
363 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  3:53:00 PM  Show Profile Send americanboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm sure there is a good reason why you chose .309 115-grain plated projectiles and I'm not bashing that. You don't see much-if-any published loads for a lead 115-grain weight. 110-grain FMJ or even lighter SP FMJ loads are pretty much available all over the place. Lead projectiles of larger cross-section are certainly used, and even recommended. Lead conforms to the inner dimensions of the barrel and creates a better seal. I routinely shoot cast .359 and .360 in my 38's and 9MM's all the time.

12.5 grains seems okay and I'm sure you could charge a 115-grain projectile just as you would a 110-grain projectile. If you get much above 13-grains of 4227, you may get into compressed loads. I don't say that's a bad thing, but why bother with it if you don't have to. I just stick with FMJ or Soft Point projectiles in .308 in all my carbine loads. The data is plentiful, there is no danger of leading-up anything and the projectiles can usually be had in the 10-cent area.

I don't want to step on toes here, but why bother with something semi-exotic....just load and shoot the bullet the gun was designed for and it will work without worry every time as long as you do your part.
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3139 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  7:09:01 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just for general info, the carbine caliber bullet was designed to be .3075, not .308. So using the larger bullet will cause a coke bottle round. Back your sizing die off 1/4 turn and your bullet seating nose punch about 2 turns. Then turn down you seating die about 1/4 turn. That should reduce the coke bottle effect and help eliminate the slight feeding problem. Sometime you just have to play with the die adjustments just a little bit to get things just right.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  7:45:54 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Smiling! There is really no real sense to my madness, hehe! Just listening to other local reloaders, and even heard the Bayou Bullets spoken highly of from a few on this site. I have been told about the leading and gas piston etc. But the coated Bayou's have excellent reviews everywhere I looked concerning leading per M1 carbine, and will admit that when I went to check them out.
I was saddened to the fact they only offered the 115 and 130 grain. .309 is there order unless otherwise special order specified. With shipping, a 500 count also came in at 10 cents each.
Just new to this and try hard to make some decisions on my own without bothering this site with every step.
Heha! Really, even though it may not seem that way.
I'm good to go I think. Just waiting for my digital weight scale for comparison purposes, and my adapter that will let me use the Lee perfect powder measure with my expanding die. Hence the want for the digital scale.
Before and after till I trust everything is working correctly.
12.5 with IMR 4227 it is for start. I think I arrived with that from jimb16 in one of his replies. He said he liked the combo. Not quoting, just think I remember it that way. I get a 13.0 on another chart. 13.5 max is what I am also getting from another.
I don't want to beat my dream machine apart. Just want to get a good combo. Honestly, I won't know how to judge things till I get there. Figure on just comparing my first loads with shelf PPU. See what happens.
I understand that I need to look at and study the spent case and primer, etc.
Love and hate this. I'm sure you can relate to some effect. The first time you shot your first reload?
Only with hope it does no harm first off. Just nervous, and sure all will be fine.
Thanks again to all watching and all replies.
I'm now satisfied with my bolt close deal. The nature of the resizing I assume. Riding the slide compared to real time is quite different I agree.
Per Lee Warning in my own words. If you don't read and follow instructions. You have no business attempting.
Ask if in doubt is my input.
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Satanta
Advanced Member



USA
177 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  7:57:45 PM  Show Profile Send Satanta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks jimb16: I didn't see your input till I was done with my last send. I like what your saying and will give that a try. I've already done the sizing for 60 cases. So I will try this on the next bunch. Awesome! can't wait to see. Thanks again.
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