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 What's wrong with this carbine?
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BEYU
Advanced Member


USA
255 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2017 :  5:04:40 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just for fun:

What's wrong with this carbine? Besides the price, I mean.

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Aside from the generally rough condition, I think the receiver looks like it is cast rather than machined. IBM Corp and the serial number are almost unreadable. Then there is the AO stamp lower down?

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin

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Jackp
Senior Member



USA
954 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2017 :  5:45:41 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It looks like a bead blasted, mix master, Israeli return that's been through a couple of arsenal rebuilds. The stock is not original as the seller claims. Bead blasting medium causes the rough surface, the rounded edges and the washed out name and serial number but is good at hiding tool marks. It's as if millions of tiny ball-peen hammers are tapping all over the surface without actually removing much material. If it were sand blasted, the edges would actually look sharper because the individual particles of sand remove material more easily from the flat surfaces than from edges and corners. It's not a casting. The "AO" identifies Auto Ordinance who made receivers for I.B.M.

Yeah, the price is a little high. Only worth maybe half as much.

JackP
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3076 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2017 :  6:42:35 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Jackp is being kind. There is almost nothing right about it. While the barrel looks like it could be original, it is import marked. It is an obvious rebuild which means that it is unlikely that anything but the receiver and barrel are IBM. IBM carbines did not have type 3 bands and the slide is probably an Inland or Winchester since it is a very late slide. It also has a late rear sight that shows punch staking. I would hesitate buying that one even if it was half that price.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
255 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2017 :  7:14:50 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jimb16

I think Jackp is being kind. There is almost nothing right about it. While the barrel looks like it could be original, it is import marked. It is an obvious rebuild which means that it is unlikely that anything but the receiver and barrel are IBM. IBM carbines did not have type 3 bands and the slide is probably an Inland or Winchester since it is a very late slide. It also has a late rear sight that shows punch staking. I would hesitate buying that one even if it was half that price.



I did notice the import marking.

So it's not quite the fake I suspected it was. I thought the receiver was a crappy casting.

I certainly agree with you, Jim, I wouldn't buy it with your money!

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
255 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  11:31:16 AM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another question comes to mind.

Why would it be necessary to "bead blast" this carbine?

This rifle may have been badly neglected.

Looking more closely at the barrel, I think I'm seeing pitting from rust?

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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Jackp
Senior Member



USA
954 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  1:09:20 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good point, BEYU. Sand blasting alone might not remove evidence of rust pitting. However it's also possible that bead or shot medium may have been all that was available at the time. They are very similar and often used interchangeably. It would be interesting to see if anyone has seen similar finishes on other Israeli carbines.

JackP
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Tuna
Moderator



3191 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  8:46:47 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think it's been blasted. I do think that it had spent a lot of time outside in the desert areas of Israel and that the sand and dust from that environment has done a job on the finish of it.
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HB of CJ
Junior Member



USA
52 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  3:59:26 PM  Show Profile Send HB of CJ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We try to actually physically examine any potential purchase. This includes permission for a quick field strip and inspection.

If the owners says OK then we gauge the entire Carbine. Then the usual field function tests. If the sellers says "no" we walk.

Buying sight unseen is so full of pitfalls. So many things can go wrong. So many things must go right. We try to avoid such.
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BEYU
Advanced Member



USA
255 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  9:40:42 PM  Show Profile Send BEYU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wise advice.

I bought my Underwood M1 Carbine sight unseen, but it was from the CMP, service grade.

BEYU

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benj. Franklin
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