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 General M1/M2 Carbine Discussion
 Saginaw S' G' Identification Assistance
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barnett17
Starting Member


4 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  07:40:04 AM  Show Profile Send barnett17 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am trying to help a client of mine research an M1 Carbine. It belonged to her late husband. Looking at the receiver, below the rear sight I can make out the beginning of what I believe to be Saginaw, and the the other side S'G'. The barrel, has Underwood and the year 1943 on it. It also has a yellow rack number on the stock. What is interesting to me is that the serial is 7 characters and starts with a 1. From the research I've performed to this point, I have yet to come across any that are that low. If fact, from what I read, it appears that the 1,000,000's were not accepted. We were just wondering about its history and if its valued as collectible. I apologize in advance if my post is breaking any rules or in the wrong area. Thank you very much for your time, expertise and information.

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shadycon
Veteran Member



USA
1370 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  09:49:08 AM  Show Profile Send shadycon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Irwin-Pederson/Saginaw Gear S'G'. Ser.#'s 1,762,520-1,875,039.

M1's-R-FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!
TSMG's-R-MORE-FUN!!!!!
ENJOY LIFE & HAVE FUN!!
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Tuna
Moderator



3230 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  11:58:59 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When carbines were made the receivers were numbered with the serial number before they were finished. When being finished some were rejected before being complete. Irwin Pedersen had been assigned the block of numbers as Shady listed. When that company lost their contract to make carbines it was given to Saginaw Steering Gear which took over the Irwin Pedersen plant in Grand Rapids. This was the same company that had a contract to make carbines already in Saginaw. But with the two different plants in operation they were considered to be two different makers. So you have S'G' for Grand Rapids stamped on the receiver or S.G. for Saginaw. Your serial number being on a receiver marked with S'G' means it was an IP made receiver that was bad and the serial number was reused after S'G' had taken over. The first 999,999 serial numbers were given to Inland. Then the next batch was given to Winchester starting with 1,000,000.

If your carbine has an adjustable rear sight then it's been through the massive government rebuild program about the time of the Korean war. The adjustable rear sight and the barrel band with the bayonet lug was the standard during the rebuild. As such depending on over all condition it would be in the $800 to $1000 range. If it has import makings then figure the $700 to $800 range. Prices also vary by regions too. Oh and on line prices are not accurate as to the selling prices.
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barnett17
Starting Member



4 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  4:24:24 PM  Show Profile Send barnett17 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you both for you expertise and the time you took to respond

After reading your responses and researching more, I now see that there are certain characteristics that separate old from new as well as rebuilds. It has become an interesting and educationalproject.
I took some pictures that hopefully will share properly if it
helps either you or anyone else in its identification.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Thanks again for your time and expertise
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Tuna
Moderator



3230 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  8:06:17 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would say the barrel is original to the receiver. The barrel band is a type 1 and is in much demand by collectors. Look in the sling well of the stock for any letters there. IT would be something like RSG or IR-IP. The safety has been changed to one used by Inland or Winchester early in their production. If you take the carbine out of the stock look on the trigger housing for a round hole on the right side. If none the look for something that looks like a house on the top right rear of the housing. Now move the rear sight to the left and look down on it. Does the sight look like it has been staked in place with a large punch? If you can answer these questions then it may be that your carbine has more value then first thought.
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barnett17
Starting Member



4 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  9:39:22 PM  Show Profile Send barnett17 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow. Im amazed at the resource of knowledge and willingness to help. Thank you so very much! I loosened the band (stamped kvsg BTW). I separated the barrel and trigger group from the stock and took more pictures. Not too sure if I did the right thing regarding the sight though.

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Im guessing the W stands for Winchester and the IO on the stock, for Inland.

Hopefully this helps.

Thanks again for your efforts
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Tuna
Moderator



3230 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2017 :  11:24:47 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good photos. Your carbine is a candidate for a full restoration. The rear sight is not staked in place and that is a good thing. If you take your time you can find an original type 1 flip sight to put on it. The same with the trigger housing. A dished out on the side of the trigger housing is what I meant before and not a full hole. The Winchester housing should make good trading material. The safety alone would be correct for an early Winchester and worth quite a bit. Now the stock being an oval cut high wood Inland would also help towards a correct RSG marked stock the same type 2. Look on the left side of the front sight and see if it's marked with a number. If not then is the top of the sight marked IPN or just an N. Now if you want to restore your carbine then ask here before you go anywhere on line to buy parts. Be aware that there are more then a few who sell reproduction parts as originals. Original parts like your barrel band bring in large amounts of money like $200 while a reproduction costs about $20. So ask before you act. The people here will help you out the best they can.
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barnett17
Starting Member



4 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2017 :  6:09:41 PM  Show Profile Send barnett17 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Greatly appreciate all the assistance. Its making the identification, and the research of its approximate value all that much easier. I went back and checked the sight, and once again you were correct. I'm pretty sure there is an N stamped on top. I took a picture if you'd care to take a look to confirm.

You must be logged in to see this link.

As it belonged to her late husband, and she has no interest in keeping it around, (much less to restore it), I guess the next step would be to figure out how to get it into someone's hands who would.

Thanks again for all the help. Enjoy the holidays and the New Year.
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Eyospt
Greenhorn Member



USA
47 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2017 :  12:15:02 PM  Show Profile  Send Eyospt an AOL message Send Eyospt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Barnett17 - the easiest way to sell it would be to list it right here on this forum in for WANT TO SELL section. Nice write-up with a few good photos (which you already have). When you find a buyer you could have an FFL in your local area package and ship it for a small fee! Here is a link you can use to find FFLs local to you. You must be logged in to see this link. Good luck with your sale. Start high on the price - you can always lower it if it doesn't sell.
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cali201
Senior Member



USA
710 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2017 :  12:29:02 PM  Show Profile Send cali201 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where are you located? Perhaps a member of this or the CMP forum is nearby and can give better info with an on hands review.
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