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 Refinishing & Restoration
 Is it worth refurbishing my NPM to factory parts?
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Gavin417
Starting Member


USA
9 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2015 :  11:41:00 AM  Show Profile Send Gavin417 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello! This is my first post so bear with me. I have a NPM M1 carbine
that was imported from Austria. Would it be worth getting all the original parts from the factory? It has the adjustable sight and bayonet lug so those I would change out. It also has an inland trigger group and a different stock. As far as I can tell those are the only incorrect parts I would have to switch out.

Edited by - Gavin417 on 03/22/2015 11:44:45 AM

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cali201
Senior Member



USA
710 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2015 :  1:56:59 PM  Show Profile Send cali201 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good chance not. Is the rear site staked? Those would be punch marks on the edge of the dovetail meeting the slide. This is normally done when adjustable sights are installed. Removing the adjustable site and installing a flip sight (which will cost you north of $100 if you can find one that is NOT a repro/fake) will leave those marks showing telling all it has been rebuilt at one time then put back. Same with the barrel band. If the barrel band with bayonet lug has been on the gun a long time there will be a big color difference where the barrel has been covered. Taking that off and putting a type 1 barrel band will be painfully obvious. You said it came from Austria, are there marks on the receiver, barrel or other parts that show that? Import marks on barrel? Most, and I mean most, carbines went through the rebuild/upgrade like yours did, that is part of their history. If there are no import marks/Austria markings and the barrel color is the same when the barrel band with bayo lug is removed and their are no stake marks then yes you can do it. You mentioned it has an Inland trigger housing, wrong stock, etc. You will go crazy tracking down the "correct parts' and if you have unlimited funds no problem. Once you find the correct parts you can sell your old parts to make some money back. The first thing you should invest in is reference material. Start with U.S. Carbines, Wartime Production by Craig Riesch, that is only about $20. War Baby by Larry RUth is also a must at about $60. It will cost you several hundred dollars in parts and unless you know an honest person or become an expert you probably will be tricked into buying fake parts (watch out for anything coming from Kalifornia).

Edited by - cali201 on 03/22/2015 2:01:17 PM
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Gavin417
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2015 :  6:10:41 PM  Show Profile Send Gavin417 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The rear sight is indeed staked. If I did decide to go down the road of refurbishing would it be possible to stake a flip site in the same place? Luckily my barrel shows no wear from the band so that would be no issue.The import mark(intrac knox, TN) is on the barrel, just behind the front sight post. A guy actually recommended the us m1 carbines, wartime production book at a gunshow. Got it used for 15 bucks. As for parts, I know a few local collectors. Is this site trustworthy for genuine parts?
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Your post is super helpful to a new guy like myself. Thanks!
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primus7
Greenhorn Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2015 :  01:07:45 AM  Show Profile Send primus7 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Gavin, nice carbine you have there. I have been doing what you are thinking about with my Rock-Ola. It has been a major pain in the butt tracking down parts, and I have made a couple bad purchases, chock it up to learning experience. But I think it can be done. I would be Extremely cautious purchasing from riverbank. Do a google search for reviews on them and you will find a wealth of information. After doing that myself I decided to stay away from them. As I have been told, go to the CMP forums and check the classifieds there, and here, and post "Want to Buy" threads here and there. The gang here have been an absolute gold mine of help and info, and its been a pleasure posting here. There is a ton of info here also, so use the search function, often. I am restoring my RO only for my own pleasure, not for any kind of financial gain. The gun was free to me so I don't mind spending to make it whole once more. Good luck to you.
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shadycon
Veteran Member



USA
1370 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2015 :  01:08:01 AM  Show Profile Send shadycon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!

M1's-R-FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!
TSMG's-R-MORE-FUN!!!!!
ENJOY LIFE & HAVE FUN!!
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Gavin417
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2015 :  05:37:34 AM  Show Profile Send Gavin417 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alright definitely glad I asked about riverbank before I bought. I will start throwing some WTBs or trades on here in the next few days. Almost bought a stock on ebay but even the seller thought it was a fake because the stamp was in too good of a shape:
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cali201
Senior Member



USA
710 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2015 :  06:32:01 AM  Show Profile Send cali201 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you are import marked then. IMO, you could go down two roads. To return it to "as built status" would be sort of a waste of money with real parts. I have a repro flip sight on one of my carbines, the stake marks hardly show at all and if they do, so what? Your import mark is still there, your carbine should have been upgraded. If you, like I, want the "look" of how it left the factory they put on some repro parts (sight, safety, barrel band) and enjoy the carbine for what it is. Keep the old parts to go with her in case you sell it, they are part of your carbine's history. One of the reasons people are getting burned on fake parts is that they are that good, that close to the real thing. You can pay $150+ for a flip sight or $25 for a repro sight and it will take someone with knowledge to know which is which. Or you can just enjoy your carbine for what she is, a war vet who for sure that went overseas.

Edited by - cali201 on 03/23/2015 06:33:14 AM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1011 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2015 :  4:24:03 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The stock you were looking at is a little pricey, especially since it has the RIA rebuild mark on it. For that price I would want one that has no arsenal stamps on it. Also, if you decide to go "original" on the flip sight and barrel band you would want a stock without a rebuild stamp. You will probably need to find at least an original safety and mag catch too. Who knows what other parts in your trigger housing will need to be changed. I'm with Cali, dress it up with repro parts and it will cost a fraction of "original" parts and will give you the original look. Especially if it's import marked. What kind of stock do you have on it now?

JackP
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Gavin417
Starting Member



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2015 :  9:39:22 PM  Show Profile Send Gavin417 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will probably keep this one as is then. I will still try to get an npm trigger receiver group though. Next gunshow in NH I will have to keep and eye out for an "older" style m1 carbine with no import markings. My handguard has a p-u marking which im pretty sure is underwood and the stock has an IR so its a Robert Irwin replacement. Eventually I would like to have an early type m1 carbine, a rebuilt m1 carbine, a paratrooper m1a1, and possibly an m2 carbine if I can afford it. If I could get one of those m3 sniperscopes I would attempt to build one of those as well. Looks like this will be my rebuild carbine. Thanks guys!
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3101 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2015 :  7:31:05 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since nobody mentioned it, I will. The stake marks on an original flip sight are chisel marks. The ones on adjustables are like little craters. Clear difference in appearance.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Krag1899
Starting Member



17 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2016 :  9:37:21 PM  Show Profile Send Krag1899 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gavin417, I just completed the process you are asking about. Luckily, I happen to have a supply of some spare carbine parts so my cost wasn't too bad. The most expensive part I paid for was a really nice Hi-wood NPM marked stock and hand guard set and a NPM flip sight. I replaced all of my parts to co-incide with the serial number so you have to be careful. Unfortunately, mine has a hard to see import mark but it's there. I know the general opinion of collectors is emphatically No, but it's mine. It looks and shoots fantastic. I don't buy them to sell them to somebody else. I have no doubt that the changes I made to this war baby have increased its value from the condition I received it in. Unless you are a pedantic collector who must have a 100% original, as issued carbine. It's your choice. I don't buy them to make them closet queens. If I buy It, I shoot it.
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2016 :  06:13:43 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The military rebuilt the carbines with redesigned parts to make the carbine more reliable and shoot better. Some say they also put a bayonet on it in case we had to invade japan at the end of world war 2. Thank God that did not happen. So why reinstall old inferior parts back in it so you can have a fake inferior old style rifle. ( jmho )
SM
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gew8805
Greenhorn Member



33 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2016 :  11:32:24 AM  Show Profile Send gew8805 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to agree with swampmolly, the gun went through a rebuild to US military standards, why change it back? The installation of even original parts will not increase it's value to a collector, as a matter of fact, in my opinion, it will likely decrease the value making it a loosing prospect when you decide to sell. The following is only my opinion based on almost 50 years of collecting and others may disagree so please don't take offense: Leave it alone and enjoy it for what it truly is, a US Military weapon, not a civilian rebuild of dubious value.
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Krag1899
Starting Member



17 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2016 :  11:08:27 AM  Show Profile Send Krag1899 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gew8805, it's ok to give your opinion. This forum is supposed to help people decide what they want to do with their gun. While I disagree with certain points, I totally agree if you are goin to sell it, leave it alone as long as someone hasn't already hacked it up. In my case, the NPM is only 1 of 9 carbines I own. It is also the only one with a import stamp directly below the chamber on the barrel. Naturally, it can't be seen unless you take the receiver out of the stock. I'm very happy with it though sitting in an excellent hi-wood stock with a properly marked flip sight, and it's still a US Military weapon......
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2016 :  11:23:28 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Krag, what is the marking under the chamber ? Are you sure that it is an import # ? Aren't most import numbers are out where you could see them?
SM
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3101 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2016 :  8:09:47 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could be an import mark. There were a couple of companies that did that....side of the receiver below the wood line was common too.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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ammc2
Advanced Member



USA
164 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2016 :  3:44:28 PM  Show Profile Send ammc2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gavin,
A short recap of a Winchester I returned to the factory parts. Took three years of painstaking purchases, lots of help from different Forum members, lots of money lost to the reproduction/faker crowd and in the end a total of close to $2000 into it, this includes the original cost. I did it because it was early, I wanted to, had time, wanted to learn and just wanted it to be nice. Would I do it again, yes, but, just remember it is not original, it is just a shooter grade to some and will not be more. Good luck on your decision and project and green light if you decide to proceed. art
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David Fox
Greenhorn Member



USA
32 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2016 :  4:30:32 PM  Show Profile Send David Fox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've seen several references to staking rear flip sights in European forward repair facilities, during the war, including a field memo calling for it. Apparently this was rarely done at the time of production, too (page 63 of Ruth & Duff's "The M1 Carbine Owner's Guide". Restoring a carbine is very like restoring a classic automobile: if it's enjoyable, do it, but you'll never get your money back.

Dave Fox

Edited by - David Fox on 07/15/2016 4:33:11 PM
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Tuna
Moderator



3229 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2016 :  11:55:30 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An example of what Dave is saying in an Irwin Pedersen carbine. To restore one today would run at least $4000 minimum. That is a lot of money and not many collectors have $4000 sitting around to be able to buy one put up for sale. If your going to restore a carbine today you need DEEEP POCKETS.
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cali201
Senior Member



USA
710 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2016 :  5:27:10 PM  Show Profile Send cali201 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
deep pockets especially for all the fake parts you are going to get tricked into buying before/if you ever find the real ones.
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2016 :  5:54:37 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You have already a much better version of the original.
SM
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2016 :  8:37:35 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was just wondering if anyone hear has an idea of how man parts that make up an original carbine have been modified and /or improved by the time the final technical order was completed in 1953 ? I would guess that most of them have been improved and some more than once.
Just in case someone wants to put all those throwaway parts back in their carbine. (LOL)
SM
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Tuna
Moderator



3229 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2016 :  11:55:24 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The butt plate screw for sure was unchanged. Trigger pin and front sight pin I think were also the only other things unchanged and maybe the key for the front sight.
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