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 need help with front sight markings
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member


USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  11:17:23 AM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My QHMC is serial# 4645xxx and i need to know the correct markings for the front sight. I have seen many different opinions on this.

thanks.

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1024 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  12:37:52 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your carbine should have the stamped/brazed type front sight marked "PO-Q" on top according to both Ruth and Reisch.

JackP
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  1:25:29 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Jackp.
Is that based off of the serial number time frame?
sorry, but who are Ruth and Reisch?

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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  1:43:12 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jack, i figured it out. Which book do you like better?
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1024 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  1:44:42 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Larry L. Ruth and Craig Reisch are authors of books on the M1 Carbine. They are regarded by most collectors as the experts. And yes, that is based off of the serial number. Your carbine was part of the last block of carbines made by Quality Hardware and Machine Corporation during late '43 and early '44.

JackP
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  2:16:18 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can you tell me what it says for the rear sight markings.

Thank you for your help.
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  2:17:40 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want to buy one of the books, which one do you like better?
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  4:13:17 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My front sight is stamped/brazed but unmarked. It has a Rock-Ola barrel. Is that possible? Or the PO-Q is the only one?

thanks again..
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1024 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  5:27:44 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rear sight:

Your carbine would have originally had an older type flip sight marked "S" on the left side and "B-Q" or "GE-Q" on the right side. If you have an adjustable rear sight your carbine has been through an arsenal rebuild and upgraded with the newer milled or stamped adjustable sight.

Books:

Reisch's "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production" is a 219 page paperback costing $15-20. I'd start with it. It's real easy to use and has loads of info. Ruth's "War Baby!" is a large, hardback book with 495 pages of very small print. It has much more information on each of the carbine manufacturers but is a little harder to use and cost about $75. Get it when you have Reich's book memorized.

Barrel:

QHMC carbines were built with barrels obtained from the government's free issue barrel program. That means it could have barrel made by Rockola, Winchester, IBM, Inland or even Buffalo Arms. Your Rockola barrel is probably original and may not have any other marks other than the "P" proof firing mark. The "PO-Q" mark is typical for the front sight itself, however unmarked stamped/brazed sights have been found on carbines in your serial number range.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/09/2015 5:54:01 PM
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  6:47:00 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thank you very much for all of the info, i will get the reisch book first. I believe my barrel to be original for sure, my gut tells me that the unmarked sight is also original based on what you say above. And by the color match and there being no makings from it being removed. My gun I think is all correct except for the rear sight and this gray area about the front sight.I intend on changing the rear sight as there are no stakes at all.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1024 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  6:58:00 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Be careful when shopping for an original flip rear sight. There are more fakes than real ones being sold. You would do well posting pictures of what you find so that the members of the forum can advise you on its authenticity.

JackP
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  7:07:29 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok thanks for the tip.
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Tuna
Moderator



3241 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  8:38:26 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unmarked stamped and brazed front sights were also used on a limited basis in the 4 million range. If your carbine has an adjustable rear sight, a type 3 barrel band with lug, a flip safety and a modified magazine release (with an M stamped on it) it's been through a rebuild. Rock-Ola barrels were the most common ones found on QH carbines but the last were delivered in December 1943. Your barrel could be original to the receiver.
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  9:17:39 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It has a type 1 band, original push button safety and magazine release. So do you think that the unmarked sight could be original?
I think that the rear sight was the only thing changed and not from a rebuild.
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  07:43:16 AM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
here are some pictures.

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1024 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  09:20:55 AM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Everything looks original to me so far, except the rear sight. The adjustable rear sight was introduced April 1944, one month after after Quality's last production and probably a couple months after your carbine was made. It's unusual that the sight was replaced without replacing the other items Tuna mentioned. Perhaps a previous owner just wanted to have the better adjustable sight. Flip sights were not always worshiped as they are now. Also, can you post some pictures of the stock? If there was an arsenal rebuild, marks on the stock would give us a clue.

Lacking any rebuild marks or import marks I would see no reason not to get a flip sight and call it done. It's the only thing out of place so far.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/10/2015 11:46:15 AM
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  10:00:27 AM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe a previous owner changed the sight as you said, to have a better one. I want to change it back. the stock has no import marks at all, it has a faint chartoush on it.


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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  10:16:05 AM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the rifle is accurate changing the front sight could introduce another problem. Many of the older front sights have been filed down to adjust for use with the flip sight and will shoot way high with the newer adjustable sight. The only way to fix that is to add to the height of the front sight. You pay your money and you take your chances on that one.
Just so you know.
Good luck,
SM
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  10:25:45 AM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks SM. I do not plan on changing the front sight since talking with Jack P and tuna on this post. i believe it to be original now based on what they have said that some were unmarked. I do want to put a flip sight back on it though.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1024 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  11:59:49 AM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Judging from your pictures your front sight has nearly all its original height. It should work okay with a flip rear sight. Also, your stocks ordinance final acceptance mark (cartouche) looks correct to me. I have one like it.

JackP
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  12:46:12 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jack, did you see the other mark on the butt plate side of the sling opening. Is that some kind of stamp also. it looks kind of like a circle with a cannon coming out to the right side. It is hard to see unless you have it in your hands.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1024 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  1:01:57 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That dark smudge looks like the mark of a "C" clamp to me. Look to see if there is a corresponding mark on the other side. Also look to see if the stock shows signs of repair in this area. An ordinance repair would involve brass pins which I don't see. You might want to carefully clean this spot with some Murphey's Oil Soap to see if it brings out some unseen detail. I do not believe it's a cartouche. I've never seen one in this location. Here's what mine looks like.


JackP
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  1:37:01 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
nice. i wish mine was a little more visible.I iwll clean tha other one some more, i was already using liquid gold soap on it. Will let you know if it shows something.
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jimb16
Moderator



USA
3106 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  9:31:53 PM  Show Profile Send jimb16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a note on sights: The original low flip was calibrated to zero at 150 yards and the tall side to 300 yards. The front sight was cut to correspond to those ranges. When adjustable sites were put on, many front sights were cut down to make the zero at 100 yards. When carbines were rebuilt, front sights were sometines removed and ended up on different carbines. This accounts for the extreme variation in the relative zeros of so many carbines.

OGCA Lifer,NRA Life member, son of a 325th GIR Glider Rider
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Tuna
Moderator



3241 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  9:37:31 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are there any letters visible in the sling well. The acceptance stamp is still visible on the left side of the stock. What is on the top near the butt plate could be anything including what Jack said. Is the stock a high wood or cut down to a low wood?
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diemaker44
Greenhorn Member



USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  9:47:39 PM  Show Profile Send diemaker44 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is low wood. Yes it has QRMC in the sling well. And after cleaning it a little more i believe that other mark to be a burn of some sort by something round.
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