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Jackp
Veteran Member


USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2014 :  2:11:32 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is the same 15 round drill I did with my later Inland (see Inland forum). The early QHMC carbine is zeroed for my son who sets the top of the front sight blade on the centerline of the target. My point of aim is at the bottom of the black. Thus my group is half a bullseye low. Both rifles hold about the same group size, with iron sights and cheap ammo (American Quality). When I use a 4X scope on an Ultimak rail and shoot Federal American Eagle with a newer Springfield Armory stock, the QHMC averages 2.3 MOA. The Inland averages 3.7 MOA.



This is the Typical Carbine Accuracy for my carbines. How does this compare with the rest of the carbine universe?

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/05/2018 5:43:51 PM

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Tuna
Moderator



3267 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2014 :  9:44:05 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your pretty close to the best of them. Most carbines will shoot between 2 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards all day long.
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sbcarbine
Starting Member



8 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2014 :  12:52:17 PM  Show Profile Send sbcarbine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found this target and took my Quality Hardware M1 out to the range.

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I shot these 7 rounds at 25 yards with my point of aim at the bottom of the black. The first time I fired I had my rear site set at 100 yards per the notes on the target. My rounds were well below the paper. I moved it up and this group had the rear set at 2.5.

I assume I have to file the front site down. It looks like it was banged a bit somewhere in it's history!

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Edited by - sbcarbine on 12/30/2014 12:56:03 PM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2014 :  1:49:29 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it were mine, I would not file the sight! I suspect most carbine owners today wish their front sights had not been filed. Maybe different ammo will shoot higher for you. Your carbine's front sight was filed originally to properly align with a Type I flip sight and was adjusted based on G.I. ammo. After the flip sight was replaced with Type II or III they usually shot high. Yours may be the exception. Your Type II sight looks like it is pretty well staked, so you probably don't want to try to replace it with one that is shorter, but that's another option. Too tall front sights are rare.

BTW, good group, maybe better than most. What ammo did you use?

JackP
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sbcarbine
Starting Member



8 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2014 :  3:13:48 PM  Show Profile Send sbcarbine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jackp,

I was using CMP bought Aguila ammo, which I understand shoots a little low. I'm going to get out there and run some Federal and PPU that I have. On the CMP forum, someone suggested to do this at 100 yards on an SR1 instead of the 25 Yard target.

I agree, I'd rather not file the sight. It looks like it's bent a bit actually, maybe someone hammered it. It definitely appears high. I read somewhere that the tip of the front site should be below the side holes in the sight guards. So, I took those pictures. It definitely appears that the top of the front sight is higher than the holes.

I'm really only going to plink with this and shoot CMP Carbine matches, so I suppose I could just live with setting my rear site at 2.5. I'm in no rush to fix this necessarily.

I'll post my results when I get out to the range and fire a couple different brands of ammo at 100 yards.

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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2014 :  3:36:23 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Federal AE was the best for my carbine. Only with a 4X scope on an UltiMak rail I averaged 2.3 MOA. Says something about my skill with iron sights. The picture shows three consecutive 5 shot groups. The best group in the middle was 1.3 MOA. Other ammo averaged around 3.5 MOA.


JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/05/2018 6:10:28 PM
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sbcarbine
Starting Member



8 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2014 :  4:08:14 PM  Show Profile Send sbcarbine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice shooting! Why did you pick 30 yards? Just curious.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2014 :  4:28:14 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There was a tree stump that I nailed some plywood to that happened to be 30 yards from my backstop. My main shooting bench is at 100 yards.


JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/05/2018 6:15:32 PM
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sbcarbine
Starting Member



8 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2014 :  10:21:58 PM  Show Profile Send sbcarbine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now you are just showing off! Beautiful spot!
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shadycon
Veteran Member



USA
1376 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2014 :  07:26:45 AM  Show Profile Send shadycon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I read somewhere that the tip of the front site should be below the side holes in the sight guards. So, I took those pictures. It definitely appears that the top of the front sight is

I adjust sites for results, not what someone says "they should look like"! GK

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TSMG's-R-MORE-FUN!!!!!
ENJOY LIFE & HAVE FUN!!
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Tuna
Moderator



3267 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2014 :  7:40:43 PM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shady that is not right. There are too many different combinations of front and rear sights to do that. Each carbine is different and what is right for one doesn't always work for another. Just look at the difference between a type 1 flip rear sight and an adjustable rear right. Type one the front sight is filed till the carbine is on at 150 and 300 yards. An adjustable rear sight is set for 100 yards and out to 300 yards with two other settings in between. Different front sight heights. If one uses a front sight filed for a type 1 rear sight with an adjustable rear sight the carbine is going to be shooting very high as the front sight is too short for the adjustable rear sight.
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2014 :  8:24:55 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've used JB Weld epoxy to build up my Inland's front sight. Like sbcarbine's, it was off the paper, but high, at 25-30 yards. The epoxy has lasted pretty well and blends in with the metal post so it is almost unnoticeable, especially if you paint it with a black Sharpie. Also, I'm not permanently altering the front sight.


JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/05/2018 6:18:19 PM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2014 :  11:10:02 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Swampmolly asked me to repeat my ammo test with my Quality Hardware carbine off of my bench rest at 100 yards. We want to compare the result to his Plainfield with a bipod rest at 100 yards. It will be a while. It's really cold here now and I need to order some more Federal ammo. I only have five rounds left. I still have plenty of S & B and American Quality ammo. The Federal shot circles around the other cheaper ammo at 30 yards. When I get done I will post the results here.

My setup will be the QHMC in a SA potbelly stock with a bedded recoil plate, 4X UTG long relief scope on an Ultimak rail. I'll be using the plastic Caldwell rest shown in the picture. Hopefully the members of the forum will find this an interesting endeavor. I know I will. I don't get out to 100 yards a lot with the M1 carbines. At that range, I need glass. Just for fun I will also compare it to my only other scoped .30 cal. semiautomatic carbine, my .300 Blackout AR-15.

Stay tuned.

Photoshop will no longer post tis image.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/04/2018 9:38:16 PM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2015 :  4:07:35 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I finally got my Federal American Eagle ammo and had some good weather to repeat the ammo test in my QHMC carbine at 100 yards.

The first picture is five shots at 30 yards. This pretty much matches the average results I reported in my earlier post. Just wanted to confirm that my rifle was still in the same condition as before.

Photoshop will no longer post this image.

The next picture shows ten more shots from 100 yards.

Photoshop will no longer post this image.


The first five shot group is marked with orange pasties. I adjusted my scope and fired a second group of five shots at the same target. As you can see they are all in the 8 ring. Actually the first group (covered by pasties) was a little tighter. I wanted to fire another full magazine but I need to save some ammo to test my Inland.

The next drill is to repeat the same exercise with my AR-15 shooting .300 AAC Blackout. I expect it will do much better.

JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/04/2018 9:39:44 PM
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swampmolly
Senior Member



USA
764 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2015 :  6:48:06 PM  Show Profile Send swampmolly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks a 3 MOA group with the first 5 shots.
Like Forest Gump said " I like it, I like a lot."
SM
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Jackp
Veteran Member



USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2015 :  12:58:32 PM  Show Profile Send Jackp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In case anyone is interested, below are pictures of 5 round groups at 30 yards and again at 100 yards from a 21st century .30 caliber carbine (AR-15). I'm shooting 150 grain Freedom Munitions ammo. This is cheap, remanufactured ammo ($26/50 rnds). I did this to show how far we have come in 72 years. I used the same scope as on the previous QHMC ammo test. The AR-15 has a stock trigger on a Smith and Wesson M & P lower. The upper is a .300 AAC, 16" flat top (1-8 twist) from Model "1" Sales.

Both carbines cost me about the same.


JackP

Edited by - Jackp on 02/05/2018 7:41:56 PM
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Mannlicher
Starting Member



USA
12 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2018 :  6:23:18 PM  Show Profile Send Mannlicher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
last time I fired for accuracy, I was getting an average of 2.3 inch groups at 75 yards. This was with a Bushnell TRS dot sight mounted on an ultimak rail, standing up and shooting off hand. Fairly rapid fire. Ammunition was Remington UMC ball.
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