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 CMP M1 Carbines
 My transitional WInchester (old DCM/NRA weapon)
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imarangemaster
Advanced Member


USA
126 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2013 :  12:15:47 AM  Show Profile Send imarangemaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sold my original unmessed with 1943 Inland, and took some of the proceeds and a case of ammo and found this transitional Winchester (un-messed with) for a really good deal.
Well, I picked up my new Winchester M1 Carbine yesterday. Serial number 5,701,503, Type II unmarked band, type III H in a shield rear sight, with original stake marks matching. Oval cut, low wood stock and bull-nosed handguard are Winchester, with Ordnance wheel and WRA over GHD on the stock. No evidence of front sight being removed, and no evidence of a Type I band having been used on the stock. Barrel has W and the WP in an oval Winchester proof on top of the barrel. No evidence of Type III band on barrel. According to Carbine Club news letters, the Type III sight and Type II band are actually correct for this weapon.

Just did a quick check: hammer W, push safety "EW", mag catch W, Hammer W, trigger housing type V (oil hole) with W on right side and X on bottom by safety, X on recoil lug screw, Type IV slide with W in channel, and flat bolt with W on right lug. Metal is 90%+ and stock is 95%+.

Another member of Milsurps carbine forum supplied info from CC newsletter that flat bolts were used to around 5,703,000ish, and Type IV slide to 5,708,000ish, so they are also correct. The stock is probably OK too, since several others have 5.7 mil Winnies that have the same stock.






Edited by - jimb16 on 08/13/2013 09:08:21 AM

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David13
Starting Member



15 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2013 :  8:23:00 PM  Show Profile Send David13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do like the stock. I think the case in green gives the photo a little bleed thru' into the metal.
dc
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Tuna
Moderator



3230 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2013 :  10:04:48 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice looking carbine but the hand guard is too early for your serial number. Winchester went to the type 3 (four rivet ) in early spring 1944 and your serial number would date to about August 1944.
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imarangemaster
Advanced Member



USA
126 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2013 :  12:37:08 AM  Show Profile Send imarangemaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually according to some of the serious collectors on Mil-surps (per CC newsletters and samples in there collections) this stock and two rivet handguard is correct on this weapon. 5,70X,XXX is at the end of usage for them and the flat bolt. There re several other nearly identical examples with same stock and handguard.
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Tuna
Moderator



3230 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2013 :  11:29:06 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The hand guard appears to be what is called a bull nose and those were no longer used by about serial number 1130000.
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imarangemaster
Advanced Member



USA
126 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2013 :  3:45:52 PM  Show Profile Send imarangemaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not bull nosed hand guard, has slight taper, and rounded edge. Same as multiple other 5.7 WInchesters in collectors hands. I had a bull nose on an Israeli import and it is really sharp.

Edited by - imarangemaster on 08/13/2013 4:01:12 PM
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imarangemaster
Advanced Member



USA
126 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2013 :  5:31:05 PM  Show Profile Send imarangemaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a bull nose: Note the prominent front face with deep front channel. Mine is not even close.
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Tuna
Moderator



3230 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2013 :  09:44:28 AM  Show Profile Send Tuna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know what a bull nose is. I have handled many of them over the years. But again it does look like one in your photo but that very well may be the distance that makes it appear to be what it may not be. Now I will warn you that not all one reads in the CC news letters can be taken as gospel. They can only go by what is sent to them and sometimes what they get looks like it's the real deal but it turns out that it's not. You have to use their information along with other printed data and sometimes like the serial number range on hand guards there is a big difference. But I will say when you get to there being a five month difference then the likely hood of something being used that late is most likely false. So before one relies on one source for information they should check all of the other reliable sources available too.
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imarangemaster
Advanced Member



USA
126 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2013 :  10:18:43 PM  Show Profile Send imarangemaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is the bull nose first and mine second. Per a Winchester collector, and several other serious carbine collectors, the two rivet was still intermixed at 5,701,XXX. Ther are several early 5.7s in identical stock/handguard configurations. I don't want a pissing contest, but am only going by people more knowledgable than I am. Past that, I really don't care one way or another. It just gets passed down when I die. Besides, I just paid a "90% Winchester Shooter" price from someone who knows (and cares) nothing about carbines. Its correctness was a surprise,




Edited by - jimb16 on 08/16/2013 6:36:45 PM
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mag318
Starting Member



7 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2013 :  7:04:19 PM  Show Profile Send mag318 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice looking Winchester.
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